Please Cleveland: go back to Indians?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by BobC

Rhett,

You are questioning me about the take on Sockalexis and going to give me crap about it? I should be the one asking you - Seriously!?!

Do us both a favor and do a little online research on Sockalexis and his short-lived Cleveland Spiders career. I think you'll quickly discover he was a tad less than stellar. He did start off his 1897 MLB rookie season like a star and helped propel the Spiders to a great start. However, he also apparently liked to drink and carouse quite a bit at night, and was given the nickname "wild bird" by his teammates as a result. Come early July of that rookie season, a foot injury hampered his play, with some sources saying it was the result of his jumping/falling from the second floor window of a brothel, while others claimed he hurt it running the basepaths. Regardless, his drinking apparently caught up to him and by late July of 1897 it was reported in the local Plain Dealer newspaper that team management couldn't control him anymore. He apparently also developed anger issues and became very sullen, to the point where he pretty much spent the rest of the 1897 season on the bench.

He then spent most of the 1898 season on the bench as well. Following that 1898 season the Spiders sold most of their players to St. Louis, but apparently, they didn't want Sockalexis. So, he started the 1899 season with the Spiders playing alongside mostly rejects, prospects, and semi-pro players. Supposedly he started off the season okay, but then his game quickly deteriorated again, to the point where it was reported he fell down drunk playing in the outfield twice during a game on May 13, 1899. He was released by the team soon after that, despite the Spiders only winning 20 games the entire season and being the worst team in MLB that year. Sockalexis was out of MLB for good, even though he was still only 27 years old at the time. I think it's pretty damning when you are so bad, you get cut by the worst team in baseball.

And then over the next couple of years after that he also ended up being arrested and jailed for drunkenness, making a public disturbance, and vagrancy. He ended up dying of a heart attack on December 24, 1913, at the fairly young age off 42.

So, how would you like me to sugar coat the major league baseball part of his career and life, so it is more to your liking?

And this is why I mentioned that the idea of the Indians being named in honor of the very first native American to play in the major leagues may not be as accurate as some would like to hope/think. Though some newspapers apparently made mention of Sockalexis at the time the Indians name was picked, it doesn't make a lot of sense for the team to really have been named in his honor due to his actual history and career with the team being so miserable, and the fact that he apparently lived up to and helped perpetuate the derogatory stereotype of a "drunken Indian".

I had also for years heard, and believed, the story of the Indians being named to honor Sockalexis. But, eventually coming across some contrary statements, I did some research and learned more of the truth about him. If anything, he is a somewhat tragic figure, and the fact that his name was mentioned in the press at the time of the Indians name selection change may have had more to do with it being a better story by which to sell newspapers than anything else.

You've heard the modern saying that if you read it on the internet, it must be true? Well 100+ years ago newspapers were pretty much the equivalent of today's internet for getting one's news.

Not interested in your take. Between my brother Rhys and I you would be hard pressed to find anyone on this planet that knows more about Sockalexis so I will take a hard pass. We both became fascinated by his story as young kids growing up in Old Town, Maine… where Sockalexis is from. You have a very myopic view of him and his accomplishments (or in your view the lack thereof) so I will not be engaging with you further on this.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Not interested in your take. Between my brother Rhys and I you would be hard pressed to find anyone on this planet that knows more about Sockalexis so I will take a hard pass. We both became fascinated by his story as young kids growing up in Old Town, Maine… where Sockalexis is from. You have a very myopic view of him and his accomplishments (or in your view the lack thereof) so I will not be engaging with you further on this.

Okay then. I've seen and read lots of information on him, and have viewed his record and such with the Spiders. You just basically said I don't know what I'm talking about with no info, backup, or anything else to explain further. Yes, please don't worry about answering back.

But in response to what you said, remember this, the topic was concerning the naming of the "Cleveland" team! Not a team from Maine, nor one from where he played his college ball, or otherwise. As a life-long Clevelander myself, I can understand using his performance as a Cleveland team member to determine if they should honor him. I am sorry, but why should Cleveland have looked at anything other than his record while in Cleveland for such a determination? His record and situation while in Cleveland was absolutely horrible, and that it is arguably all that should have been relevant. Especially after the team was coming off being named after Lajoie, its manager and star player. Answer yourself this. Why would a team go from honoring a player of Lajoie's talent and record, by having been named after him, to immediately honoring someone with Sockalexis' team history and record? The quick answer is, no one in their right mind would.

Everything I said about him while in Cleveland and his performance as a Spider is factually true and accurate. I do concur with you though, and even said so myself, he was a tragic figure. But for purposes of determining his worth in supposedly honoring him by naming the team the Indians, I think it much more important and relevant to apply a "focused" view to his contributions to just the Cleveland franchise and city. And quite frankly, based on his actual performance and record as a Spider, he is not deserving. And your finding fault with that is what I consider as coming from a "myopic" point of view from you, not me.

And if you don't like what I was saying about him, be sure to not go looking up his story on the New England Historical Society site.

[Butch7999]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

"The nickname "Yard Goats" was selected as part of a "Name the Team" contest which drew over 6,000 submissions.
"Yard goats" is rail-yard slang for the switch engines or terminal tractors that shuttle train cars between different locomotives.
The stadium is adjacent to the Hartford rail yards."

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Lol! I suppose they could have done better... The Hartford Mark Twains, perhaps?

In faint hope of lightening the mood in this thread, we suggest the Hartford team might have combined
the two elements and become the ChooChoo Twains...

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Butch7999

In faint hope of lightening the mood in this thread, we suggest the Hartford team might have combined
the two elements and become the ChooChoo Twains...

That would offend people with a speech impediment, like Elmer Fudd.

[profholt82]

I wish the Astros would switch back to the Colt .45s.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Butch7999

In faint hope of lightening the mood in this thread, we suggest the Hartford team might have combined
the two elements and become the ChooChoo Twains...

I could get on board with that one.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I could get on board with that one.

+1

[steve B]

If they wanted something related to what Hartford is known for they could have gone with "actuaries"

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by steve B

If they wanted something related to what Hartford is known for they could have gone with "actuaries"

"The Hartford Prudentials" (too on the nose maybe?)

"The Hartford Bean Counters"

"The Hartford Office Space Vacancies"

"The Hartford Not The Whalers"

"The Hartford Half Our Events Are Held In A Mall With No Stores"

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by Butch7999

In faint hope of lightening the mood in this thread, we suggest the Hartford team might have combined
the two elements and become the ChooChoo Twains...

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I could get on board with that one.

Nice attempt at derailing the discussion.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

Nice attempt at derailing the discussion.

We need to stay on track with our comments, from here on out.