Dave Parker - HOF?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

See post 208 where I said I think he should be in. He is very clearly not in the top group of no brainers though; like the 4 named players who all produced more than double his value.

Those four weren't named because they were no-brainers - they were named because the possessed the same "character issues" for which Belle is penalized by some.

Originally Posted by G1911

Puckett and Joss are also both low end players and Puckett is often criticized as an electee on here. Koufax possesses some magical charm over a large segment of baseball fandom that makes rational analysis all but impossible (see the 10,000 mega thread). Arguing that he belongs alongside the bottom of the hall like Puckett and Joss is exactly where I ranked him.

Obviously Belle would be not an inner circle HOFer if he were elected. His shortened career eliminates that. Having said that, his numbers when he was playing ARE inner circle elite - when you average more homers and as many RBI per 162 games as Ted Williams, while playing your entire career in an integrated league with flamethrower relievers, you ARE elite.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Those four weren't named because they were no-brainers - they were named because the possessed the same "character issues" for which Belle is penalized by some.

Obviously Belle would be not an inner circle HOFer if he were elected. His shortened career eliminates that. Having said that, his numbers when he was playing ARE inner circle elite - when you average more homers and as many RBI per 162 games as Ted Williams, while playing your entire career in an integrated league with flamethrower relievers, you ARE elite.

I am well aware they weren't named because they were no brainers. I never said that was why they were named. See post 205 again. What I said was that top-tier guys like Carlton, Perry, Cobb and Ted Williams who are far and away obviously hall of famers, who are not kept out for being unlikable or throwing a spitball. Marginal hall of famers may or may not be kept out, Dick Allen and Albert Belle are marginal hall of famers close to the border. It is hard to prove this is why they are out.

Belle's issues are certainly more severe than being unpopular with the press (Carlton, Williams) or throwing a spitball (Perry). Belle's problems include similar things like a corked bat and being a surly dick, but he also was convicted of stalking a woman, charged with indecent exposure, and caught a case for assaulting a child.

As for your 2nd paragraph, it seems we agree and there's nothing to debate? I wouldn't compare raw values in the 90's AL to raw values in the 40's and 50's, but it doesn't seem to change the calculation much.