Dave Parker - HOF?

[Jim65]

I don't like the "is he the best player not in"? Or the "is he the best player at his position not in"? Because there will always be someone who fits that description.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

If we were the BBWAA he wouldn't get in, so there's no change in status. Let's find the guys that 75% of us can agree on!

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If we were the BBWAA he wouldn't get in, so there's no change in status. Let's find the guys that 75% of us can agree on!

We won't get 75% agreement on him but my #1 guy (besides guys like Arod, Clemens, and Bonds) is Albert Belle. The only argument against him is "his career was too short" but, if we're not holding that against Addie Joss, Kirby Puckett, or Sandy Koufax, we shouldn't be holding it against Albert Belle either. The standard is 10 seasons (9 if you're Joss) - not "well, kinda 10 but really 14-16 or however many I feel like". And Belle played in 12 seasons anyway.

[Kidnapped18]

Tim Raines HOF 2017

[Kidnapped18]

Harold Baines HOF 2019

[cannonballsun]

I voted no.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Tabe

We won't get 75% agreement on him but my #1 guy (besides guys like Arod, Clemens, and Bonds) is Albert Belle. The only argument against him is "his career was too short" but, if we're not holding that against Addie Joss, Kirby Puckett, or Sandy Koufax, we shouldn't be holding it against Albert Belle either. The standard is 10 seasons (9 if you're Joss) - not "well, kinda 10 but really 14-16 or however many I feel like". And Belle played in 12 seasons anyway.

He was caught using corked bats, and had a seriously less than friendly relationship and interactions with media and fans, during and after his career. In fact, he even changed the name he went by when he got into the majors to try and uncouple with his past due to alcohol and anger issues. He actually went by "Joey" until after getting out of rehab back in 1991, and switched to his first name Albert, to signify a supposed new start. I doubt the BBWAA has/had a lot of sympathy for him. And the bat corking likely doesn't sit well with a lot of veteran players.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by BobC

He was caught using corked bats, and had a seriously less than friendly relationship and interactions with media and fans, during and after his career. In fact, he even changed the name he went by when he got into the majors to try and uncouple with his past due to alcohol and anger issues. He actually went by "Joey" until after getting out of rehab back in 1991, and switched to his first name Albert, to signify a supposed new start. I doubt the BBWAA has/had a lot of sympathy for him. And the bat corking likely doesn't sit well with a lot of veteran players.

Gaylord Perry. Ted Williams. Steve Carlton. Ty Cobb.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Gaylord Perry. Ted Williams. Steve Carlton. Ty Cobb.

The key difference being that Belle is a borderline hall of famer, while these 4 are far and above the general hall standard. They also were not as publicly reviled as much as Belle was. It doesn't take much to keep someone on the edge out.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by G1911

The key difference being that Belle is a borderline hall of famer, while these 4 are far and above the general hall standard. They also were not as publicly reviled as much as Belle was. It doesn't take much to keep someone on the edge out.

Actually, what Belle was able to do, and the hitting ability he had, are not borderline HOF type numbers, they are full-blown HOF worthy type stats. Belle suffered from a career cut short due to injury/health reasons, and thus was not able to reach the typical HOF plateaus you expect from hitters, like 500 HRs or 3,000 hits. If anything, Belle is comparable to Koufax in that during his peak years, there really was no one more feared as a hitter than him. Had he been anywhere near as nice and friendly with fans and the media as Koufax (and never caught using a corked bat), he would be in the HOF.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Gaylord Perry. Ted Williams. Steve Carlton. Ty Cobb.

Chris,

Did any of the guys you named ever go so far as to hop in their vehicle to physically chase down trick-or-treaters who came and egged their house as a prank on Halloween, and then hit one of the kids with their Ford Explorer? Or how about actually throwing a ball into the stands and hitting a fan who was heckling them? Or what about stalking and harassing a former girlfriend and getting locked up for 90 days as a result. Oh, and then did any of them ever go out and get super drunk, get arrested for an extreme DUI, and as part of the festivities also expose themselves to adults and children so they tacked on an indecent exposure charge as well? Belle did all of these!

Albert/Joey is a very complicated and troubled individual. Being unfriendly to sportswriters and the media is likely the least of his issues in seeking selection to the HOF. Throw in the fact he cheated and used a corked bat to unfairly boost his hitting prowess, along the same lines as many of the PED users, and it makes sense why he only lasted for two HOF ballots.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by BobC

Chris,

Did any of the guys you named ever go so far as to hop in their vehicle to physically chase down trick-or-treaters who came and egged their house as a prank on Halloween, and then hit one of the kids with their Ford Explorer? Or how about actually throwing a ball into the stands and hitting a fan who was heckling them? Or what about stalking and harassing a former girlfriend and getting locked up for 90 days as a result. Oh, and then did any of them ever go out and get super drunk, get arrested for an extreme DUI, and as part of the festivities also expose themselves to adults and children so they tacked on an indecent exposure charge as well? Belle did all of these!

Albert/Joey is a very complicated and troubled individual. Being unfriendly to sportswriters and the media is likely the least of his issues in seeking selection to the HOF. Throw in the fact he cheated and used a corked bat to unfairly boost his hitting prowess, along the same lines as many of the PED users, and it makes sense why he only lasted for two HOF ballots.

Supposedly Williams aimed foul balls towards a heckler in the stands at least once.