Hey, pennant guys

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

Question for the group...were the College Pennants offered from the coupons and advertisements below, the same as the B54 large rectangular felts?
I ask because the B54s were closer to 13x28", and the pennants advertised by Fatima are listed as 12x32". Were there different Fatima College Pennants? If so, I am not sure I am aware of them.
Thanks
Joe

I came across this add from 1910 stating the the Fatima pennants were a "hand-sewn felt pennant", which which would seem to indicate they are not the B54 rugs, but rather your traditional college pennants with sewn on letters. If that's the case, I have never seen a tag or marking on a large pennant from Fatima or Liggett & Meyers. Have others?

I wonder where L&M sourced their pennants, and if they ever put their own tag or stamping on the reverse. Since they offered for over 100 colleges, etc., it would seem they sourced from a larger pennant manaufacturer.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

I came across this add from 1910 stating the the Fatima pennants were a "hand-sewn felt pennant", which which would seem to indicate they are not the B54 rugs, but rather your traditional college pennants with sewn on letters. If that's the case, I have never seen a tag or marking on a large pennant from Fatima or Liggett & Meyers. Have others?

I wonder where L&M sourced their pennants, and if they ever put their own tag or stamping on the reverse. Since they offered for over 100 colleges, etc., it would seem they sourced from a larger pennant manufacturer.

Joe, I completely agree with you. Until your earlier post, I had always assumed that the promo items offered by Fatima Cigarettes ca. 1910 were limited to pennant-like items, e.g., leather squares embossed with an image of a school's pennant, or felt "rugs" with an illustration of same. I had no reason to think they offered full-size, sewed letter pennants. Apparently, they did, as per these advertisements you've unearthed. Nice work!

As to your latest post, I too am now wondering where they sourced their pennants from. My best guess is these promo pennants had no mark at all on them. If they had read "Smoke Fatima Cigarettes" on the reverse, we'd have surely come across such a distinctive mark.

It's an odd thing to have a promo pennant series with no branding whatsoever thereon. Isn't the whole point to promote sales of their products? The Ferguson Bakery (BF3) promo pennant series from ca. 1916 was mostly unbranded; however, their premiums had at least a maker's mark on the reverse (Bradford & Co.). On the other hand, The Detroit Free Press promo pennant series from ca. 1913 included a label on the reverse reading "Detroit Free Press." Adding a label or screening an extra mark would have added to the production costs, so maybe that's why Fatima didn't mark their pennants with their branding, as they did with their premium "rugs" (which could be easily stamped with their branding)?

If you're curious, here's the premium "rug" Fatima issued for Notre Dame....

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Joe, I completely agree with you. Until your earlier post, I had always assumed that the promo items offered by Fatima Cigarettes ca. 1910 were limited to pennant-like items, e.g., leather squares embossed with an image of a school's pennant, or felt "rugs" with an illustration of same. I had no reason to think they offered full-size, sewed letter pennants. Apparently, they did, as per these advertisements you've unearthed. Nice work!

As to your latest post, I too am now wondering where they sourced their pennants from. My best guess is these promo pennants had no mark at all on them. If they had read "Smoke Fatima Cigarettes" on the reverse, we'd have surely come across such a distinctive mark.

It's an odd thing to have a promo pennant series with no branding whatsoever thereon. Isn't the whole point to promote sales of their products? The Ferguson Bakery (BF3) promo pennant series from ca. 1916 was mostly unbranded; however, their premiums had at least a maker's mark on the reverse (Bradford & Co.). On the other hand, The Detroit Free Press promo pennant series from ca. 1913 included a label on the reverse reading "Detroit Free Press." Adding a label or screening an extra mark would have added to the production costs, so maybe that's why Fatima didn't mark their pennants with their branding, as they did with their premium "rugs" (which could be easily stamped with their branding)?

If you're curious, here's the premium "rug" Fatima issued for Notre Dame....

WOW very nice looking "Rug" actually look good hanging on a wall

[Fballguy]

If you're into college pennants, I stumbled upon this place recently. Located in Branford, CT (with CT pricing to boot). Joe you may be particularly interested, if you aren't aware already. Didn't realize there were real live brick and mortar pennants stores out there.

PS...Sorry for the super size. Not enough coffee in me yet to mess with the photo sizes.

https://americanamemories.com

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

If you're into college pennants, I stumbled upon this place recently. Located in Branford, CT (with CT pricing to boot). Joe you may be particularly interested, if you aren't aware already. Didn't realize there were real live brick and mortar pennants stores out there.

Thanks Rob. I am aware of Americana Memories, as they have a large on-line presence and on Etsy too. I didn't realize either they have an actual store. That would be cool to visit if I find myself in the area someday - like you said, they have some very healthy prices!

BTW, looking at the picture you sent, I am not a fan of seeing pennants sitting out in the sun like that. I've seen how the older pennants can fade considerably over time, if exposed to sun.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

Thanks Rob. I am aware of Americana Memories, as they have a large on-line presence and on Etsy too. I didn't realize either they have an actual store. That would be cool to visit if I find myself in the area someday - like you said, they have some very healthy prices!

BTW, looking at the picture you sent, I am not a fan of seeing pennants sitting out in the sun like that. I've seen how the older pennants can fade considerably over time, if exposed to sun.

Yeah...When I saw the picture I was even more blown away that he had pennants sitting outside his store. I had to see where that was. Couldn't do that in Houston. Branford is a relatively wealthy community down on the CT shoreline. Not much in the way of crime there. Finding people with money won't be difficult, but enough pennant collectors to keep a store open?

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Yeah...When I saw the picture I was even more blown away that he had pennants sitting outside his store. I had to see where that was. Couldn't do that in Houston. Branford is a relatively wealthy community down on the CT shoreline. Not much in the way of crime there. Finding people with money won't be difficult, but enough pennant collectors to keep a store open?

yeah...kinda reminded me a little bit of the old "National Pastime" store in Cooperstown..ever seen that? A lot of museum quality stuff, but not sure much of it ever sold.

[rlevy]

Seems like a slow news day here on the pennant thread so thought I would post the following. I've been speaking to the curator for the Jackie Robinson Museum in New York about loaning them some items from my collection, and decided to loan them the pennant below (I've posted a photo of this pennant before) for display alongside other Jackie Robinson barnstorming items they have. They will probably borrow other items from my collection when they next rotate their displays. I've loaned out Koufax items before to some museums as well as to Dodger Stadium, but this is my first time loaning out anything Jackie. I'm hoping to get to see the museum when I go to NY for a wedding in July.

Rick

1953 Jackie Robinson all-star resized.jpg

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Joe, I completely agree with you. Until your earlier post, I had always assumed that the promo items offered by Fatima Cigarettes ca. 1910 were limited to pennant-like items, e.g., leather squares embossed with an image of a school's pennant, or felt "rugs" with an illustration of same. I had no reason to think they offered full-size, sewed letter pennants. Apparently, they did...

Thanks Domer. Given the American Tobacco Company's (ATC) enormously broad and deep reach within all the colleges and universities, it would seem many would take advantage of the premium coupon offer. Seems to suggest that a very large proportion of the college sewn letter pennants that remain today, were actually distributed through the ATC.

Given the extensive amount of smoking that took place then, it would be very quick and easy for a student to amass 25 coupons.

Here's a piece on one of the typical smokers that happened at Cornell (there were many throughout the year), where 1,200 cans of tobacco and 30,000 Fatima cigarettes were donated by the American Tobacco Company - they had their hooks into all these students.

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

......Given the extensive amount of smoking that took place then, it would be very quick and easy for a student to amass 25 coupons.

Here's a piece on one of the typical smokers that happened at Cornell (there were many throughout the year), where 1,200 cans of tobacco and 30,000 Fatima cigarettes were donated by the American Tobacco Company - they had their hooks into all these students.

Thought I would share one of the elaborate pipes given out to students at a 1902 Sophomore Smoker, for those interested. This isn't mine but belongs to a friend of mine.

[bocca001]

Something about the red tassels made me buy it

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Something about the red tassels made me buy it

I LOVE pennants like that (with non-matching tassels). Awesome contrast, and seems like this 3/4 style of pennant had its heyday in the late '40s - early '50s.

Nice pickup Marc!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I LOVE pennants like that (with non-matching tassels). Awesome contrast, and seems like this 3/4 style of pennant had its heyday in the late '40s - early '50s.

Nice pickup Marc!

Very nice. This seems to be that mystery NYC area company with the very unique spine material. So hard to find one with no fading.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Something about the red tassels made me buy it

Much more vibrant than my example, even after dyeing, and I see what you mean about the red tassels.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Marc,
I like these pennants a lot. I think they’re under appreciated because with the Yankees, Dodgers, and Giants they were common from the 1930’s up to the 50’s as they were undated. Despite being undated, I still like them. I like the graphics and the colors. I personally collect Yankees so there’s lots of different nuances over the years. Nice pick up.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Something about the red tassels made me buy it

You should give this one a prominent position around the Christmas tree each December. Would also look great in one of the many Mexican restaurants in our area.

Sorry...Just kidding. My wife is Mexican and I'm sensitive to red white and green ever since she hung up red, white and green Christmas lights outside and our neighbors told us it looked like a Mexican restaurant opened in the neighborhood. Now we just do red and green.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You should give this one a prominent position around the Christmas tree each December. Would also look great in one of the many Mexican restaurants in our area.

Sorry...Just kidding. My wife is Mexican and I'm sensitive to red white and green ever since she hung up red, white and green Christmas lights outside and our neighbors told us it looked like a Mexican restaurant opened in the neighborhood. Now we just do red and green.

El Tri!