Thought experiment: You have $25,000 what to do.

[Smarti5051]

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I am curious why Ted Williams always gets left off the list of most important "vintage" ballplayers. Clemente/Jackie make sense from a cultural perspective, and obviously Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb and Wagner are pre-war titans. But, how is Ted Williams not part of the Aaron, Mays, Mantle level? It is not one or two omissions, he is consistently on a lower tier when I have seen folks listing the best player cards by era (whereas, he is almost always Top 10 by baseball analysts compiling "best of" lists). As someone newer to vintage collecting than many of the long-timers here, I am wondering why his performance is viewed as less significant than his contemporaries in the 40s-50s.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I am curious why Ted Williams always gets left off the list of most important "vintage" ballplayers. Clemente/Jackie make sense from a cultural perspective, and obviously Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb and Wagner are pre-war titans. But, how is Ted Williams not part of the Aaron, Mays, Mantle level? It is not one or two omissions, he is consistently on a lower tier when I have seen folks listing the best player cards by era (whereas, he is almost always Top 10 by baseball analysts compiling "best of" lists). As someone newer to vintage collecting than many of the long-timers here, I am wondering why his performance is viewed as less significant than his contemporaries in the 40s-50s.

Just guessing, but if you look at the players you listed and Williams, the differences that stick out are that:

1) He did not play for a New York team.

2) He did not set, nor still holds, what many may consider as a significant all-time MLB record.

3) He was not the first/only one ever in MLB to set, achieve, or perform some significant mark, goal, or event.

He is the last player to hit .400, but he wasn't the first. He is the only player (that I know of) to literally miss almost 5 full seasons of MLB because of military service, which doesn't really count as a baseball related stat in people's minds. And yet, it is because of his military service that he likely missed out on setting, and still holding, some all-time MLB records. Had Williams not missed those 5 years for military service, and instead had 5 average Ted Williams years, he would very likely also be the current all-time MLB recordholder for RBIs and Runs Scored, and possibly for all-time Walks as well. And it probably would have boosted him, at least at some point in time, into the top 5/10 all-time category for some other batting records as well, including second all-time in HRs behind only Ruth, until Aaron would eventually pass him years later. And this is all in addition to the one all-time batting record he does hold for OBP. But for some reason fans don't seem to think of OBP as highly as they do RBIs, Runs Scored, and HRs. It is also possible he may have batted .400 for a season at least one more time as well, or who knows what else had he been able to play those 5 lost years. So, he does seem to get downplayed/forgotten a bit in relation to the other star players mentioned, and military service and not playing for a team in the right media market are likely big contributing factors as to why.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I am curious why Ted Williams always gets left off the list of most important "vintage" ballplayers. Clemente/Jackie make sense from a cultural perspective, and obviously Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb and Wagner are pre-war titans. But, how is Ted Williams not part of the Aaron, Mays, Mantle level? It is not one or two omissions, he is consistently on a lower tier when I have seen folks listing the best player cards by era (whereas, he is almost always Top 10 by baseball analysts compiling "best of" lists). As someone newer to vintage collecting than many of the long-timers here, I am wondering why his performance is viewed as less significant than his contemporaries in the 40s-50s.

I do agree Williams and DiMaggio don't get the respect in the hobby that they deserve. Maybe because they didn't have many cards issued during their playing days.

Picked this one up a while back. I think signed vintage also has plenty of room to grow if looking for an investment opportunity.

[Republicaninmass]

Signed vintage hof names, signed HOF rcs and signed HOF hopefuls.

When you see 5 or 6 of the same card offered in one auction, it has to make one think about the supply aspect. People are selling in droves, buying from an auction and selling 6 months later or sooner. Irrational exuberance and no sign of prudence or reliance on past sales.


For years, the 2 most plentiful sets in every auction were t206 and 33 goudeys by the truckload. Plus people always saved the "good players"

[spartakid8]

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I am curious why Ted Williams always gets left off the list of most important "vintage" ballplayers. Clemente/Jackie make sense from a cultural perspective, and obviously Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb and Wagner are pre-war titans. But, how is Ted Williams not part of the Aaron, Mays, Mantle level? It is not one or two omissions, he is consistently on a lower tier when I have seen folks listing the best player cards by era (whereas, he is almost always Top 10 by baseball analysts compiling "best of" lists). As someone newer to vintage collecting than many of the long-timers here, I am wondering why his performance is viewed as less significant than his contemporaries in the 40s-50s.

I’m curious to hear thoughts on this as well, I was surprised to see his play ball rookie not included on more lists

[egri]

Great card Jesse!

In addition to what others have said, Williams never won a championship, and other than a brief run in the late 1940s/early 1950s was stuck on second division teams his whole career. It wasn’t his fault; the Red Sox were terrible at developing pitchers (some things never change) but he still gets dinged for it.

[FrankWakefield]

Spread the money out, invest in a couple of ETF's that track lithium, VanEck's REMX for example, buy 100 shares of Williams Cos, WMB; buy stock in Occidental Petroleum OXY, Haliburton HAL, Apple AAPL, and Berkshire HathawayB BRK.B. After that, maybe a fellow should buy a few ungraded W514s and gather those before their value goes into low Earth orbit like other pre-war cards.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by spartakid8

I’m curious to hear thoughts on this as well, I was surprised to see his play ball rookie not included on more lists

The play ball seems to be a hot card. My two cents is that it seems that he has a lack of great cards issued in his early days. Side note: Ted and Joe D are high up on most people’s list of best players of all time but they may both suffer from being considered a bit surly. Neither seemed to have the charisma of a ruth or mantle. Could be way off here.

[Johnny630]

I ask myself these questions what player does a Brilliant say late 20’s Wall Street Hedge Fund Manager Type who loves making money but has never watched or played a sport yet wants to diversify, who will he know.

I always come back to Ruth and Jackie.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I ask myself these questions what player does a Brilliant say late 20’s Wall Street Hedge Fund Manager Type who loves making money but has never watched or played a sport yet wants to diversify, who will he know.

I always come back to Ruth and Jackie.

I suspect guys like that are buying more basketball than baseball.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I am curious why Ted Williams always gets left off the list of most important "vintage" ballplayers...

While pondering the thought experiment, I put together a "top ten" list. There were three players on that list whom I did not include in my post above. Those three were Ted Williams, Christy Mathewson, and Honus Wagner.

In Williams' case, I left him off due to his lack of a World Series ring. He was a great player and an otherworldly hitter; however, Williams never got to the top of the mountain.

I have similar feelings regarding every perennial All-Star with barren fingers. There are posters who will likely attack this point of view and cite numerous reasons why "championships don't matter" in baseball. Ultimately, though, winning the World Series does matter...as it pertains to being an upper-echelon, top-tier player.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How many World Series did Ty Cobb win?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How many World Series did Ty Cobb win?

I believe the answer is zero. Cobb's occasionally deplorable behavior is also one of the reasons I left him off my list. I realize many collectors couldn't care less about either of those things. Villains have a certain appeal to some people. From a purely monetary point of view, it probably makes sense to pick up his cards. Still, my original list of seven will likely perform quite well...and I'd be thrilled with any of those.

[bbcard1]

Prewar: I would probably go with the nicest condition I could find of the generals...Johnson, Cobb, Ruth, Matty

Vintage 1951 B Mantle Rookie and a Leaf Jackie

Modern: it's hard not of love Juan Soto. He was the 6th youngest player on a major league roster this year. He also has 99 HRs, 486 hits, 375 walks and 338 runs scored already.

Long shot...pick up a few very high grade 1978 Glenn Burke cards.

[riggs336]

A low-end one of these. (pictured card is not mine)