Dave Parker - HOF?

[Jason19th]

He may not be a clear Hofer but he is also not just an above average player with a long career. He was in the top 20 for MVP voting 9 times and made 7 all stars teams. He also won multiple gold gloves. That is an impact that player for a long time not just a compiler. I have always been a big proponent of WAR so I have to acknowledge that his is low. If he had played in an era that valued walks and/or was able to take walk his war would be much higher.

I think the real problem is that he is some much better then a bunch of guys in the hall that it seems like he should be in. I understand that most of those guys - I am thinking the Chick Haley, Jim Bottemly, Harold Baines, Ross Youngs type- were also mistakes and should not be basis for future inductions. But it still feels wrong that they are in and he is out.

[Rich Falvo]

I really want to say Yes, but I think he's just outside.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

I really want to say Yes, but I think he's just outside.

+1 agree

[Ricky]

Forget WAR for a minute… for those who saw Parker play and remember him, was he a dominant player? Was there a period of time when he was the best player in the National League?

[paul]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Forget WAR for a minute… for those who saw Parker play and remember him, was he a dominant player? Was there a period of time when he was the best player in the National League?

Yes and yes.

[h2oya311]

every post (even a poll) needs a card (edited to add that I see that Peter already did, oops)! Here are a few early Parker items in the event he ever does get the call to the hall:



that said, my vote is "no". Right on the fringe. But I wouldn't have even had Baines on the fringe, so who knows?!?!?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

every post (even a poll) needs a card (edited to add that I see that Peter already did, oops)! Here are a few early Parker items in the event he ever does get the call to the hall:



that said, my vote is "no". Right on the fringe. But I wouldn't have even had Baines on the fringe, so who knows?!?!?

Those are awesome cards, HOF or not. Absolutely love the oddball stuff.

[abothebear]

Dave Parker and Jim Rice are very similar across many traditional and advanced stats. I might even put Parker ahead of Rice when you consider other measures of success. But I don’t know if Rice is a good benchmark. I think he got a city-bias and dramatic headline boost. Not a fan of Parker’s cocaine dealings though.

[scotgreb]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Forget WAR for a minute… for those who saw Parker play and remember him, was he a dominant player? Was there a period of time when he was the best player in the National League?

MVP in 1978 -- so arguably the best in the NL that year. Top 5 MVP four other years + top 20 nine times + 2 batting titles. Led the league in total bases twice. Arguably dominant.

As a Bucs fan, I don't believe it's an injustice either way but would like to see him in. He received 7 votes from the most recent Modern Era committee. Wouldn't be surprised to see him make it, given at least two more Modern committee votes (2024, 2026) against pretty weak fields IMO.

Scott

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Forget WAR for a minute… for those who saw Parker play and remember him, was he a dominant player? Was there a period of time when he was the best player in the National League?

Hell YES, he was dominant!

Just talking about great arms in right field, You have Clemente. Then, in the 1970s, the best arms in the NL were Parker and Dave Winfield; Dwight Evans in the AL.

Parker and Winfield were very similar to each other.

Steve

[Lorewalker]

He was definitely a threat at the plate in the 70s...loved seeing him play but probably a borderline HOFer. Sadly there are two many of those guys in the Hall, imo.

[Brian Van Horn]

I consider Parker and Bill Madlock worthy playing wise of the Hall of Fame. The drug trial in Pittsburgh.......

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Forget WAR for a minute… for those who saw Parker play and remember him, was he a dominant player? Was there a period of time when he was the best player in the National League?

I would like to point out that most, if not all of Parker's HOF eligibility was used up before WAR became as commonplace a metric as it is today. So apparently the "old fashioned" numbers guys didn't think he belongs either.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I would like to point out that most, if not all of Parker's HOF eligibility was used up before WAR became as commonplace a metric as it is today. So apparently the "old fashioned" numbers guys didn't think he belongs either.

True but the writers don’t always get it right. We all can name guys who belonged in the Hall but either took too long to get there or the writers missed them and the veterans committee put them in. Parker is a close call but the guy was dominant and a top five player for a period of time. WAR hates his defense but he had a cannon and was well thought of defensively in his prime. I think he eventually goes in.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Ricky

True but the writers don’t always get it right. We all can name guys who belonged in the Hall but either took too long to get there or the writers missed them and the veterans committee put them in. Parker is a close call but the guy was dominant and a top five player for a period of time. WAR hates his defense but he had a cannon and was well thought of defensively in his prime. I think he eventually goes in.

I'm one of those weirdos who thinks the writers have done a good job over the years and the Veteran's Committee is responsible for most of the travesties.

[Ricky]

Nor weird at all and I mostly agree. But the writers have had their moments and misses.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Forget WAR for a minute… for those who saw Parker play and remember him, was he a dominant player? Was there a period of time when he was the best player in the National League?

Yes. Having seen him play, I am a definite proponent of him getting into the Hall. He was considered the most fearsome hitter in baseball for quite a while, and had a cannon for an arm. Screw the metrics in this case.

[rhettyeakley]

There are some players that the metrics used to calculate WAR and other more advanced stats just absolutely hate... Dave Parker is one of those players. He is joined in that group with other "borderline" players by today's standards that were considered far better in their day than modern statistical analysis would indicate. Some of the more prominent in this group are players like Steve Garvey (WAR 38.0), Lou Brock (WAR 43.5), Joe Carter (WAR 19.5), Bil Madlock (WAR 38.2), Roy Campanella (WAR 41.6), Al Oliver (WAR 43.7) & many more. There are some that are shockingly bad by modern standards... look up Bill Buckner (lifetime .289 hitter with over 2,700 hits and has a career WAR of 15!!!)

On the flipside of this scale are guys that modern statistical analysis LOVE! Some players in this group are Bobby Grich (WAR 71.1), Buddy Bell (WAR 66.3), Graig Nettles (WAR 68.0), Sal Bando (WAR 61.5), Dwight Evans (WAR 67.2), Willie Randolph (WAR 65.9), Reggie Smith (WAR 64.5)

This is the danger of relying too heavily on these metrics for overall quality of the player.

[Snowman]

He's not in my HOF.

[yanks87]

Dave Parker is in two hall of fames for me:
Nickname - Cobra
Bad Ass Player - among other things, warmed up with a sledgehammer

In the mainstream world, my argument has always been if you are going to put Edgar Martinez in, you have to put Dave Parker in, their stat lines are SUPER close, but Cobra played in the field, won gold gloves, MVP's and went to World Series'. Stat guys, check your WAR at the door, it doesn't work in this comparison. Would that ever happen? NO. Since someone else invoked the "Hall of Very Good," I think that is where they both belong, along with a couple of other recent inductees.

While I am on the soap box, I do think that since now DH is becoming universal, there needs to be a qualifier for inductions of a player who plays more games at DH than in the field. Not some odd equation that can be reprogrammed to reflect intangibles, but cold hard stats that MEAN SOMETHING in baseball. In order for a DH to go into the Hall, they have to have hit over 3000 hits, or 500 home runs. If your one and only job is to hit, and it is your full time job, it shouldn't be a problem.

Now to go back to yelling at clouds, and calling squirrels lazy.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by yanks87

In the mainstream world, my argument has always been if you are going to put Edgar Martinez in, you have to put Dave Parker in, their stat lines are SUPER close,

If a 26% superior OPS compared to the league is SUPER close I guess...

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Forget WAR for a minute… for those who saw Parker play and remember him, was he a dominant player? Was there a period of time when he was the best player in the National League?

What defines a period of time? He was one of the best players for a 3 year period 1977-79. Is that enough for the HOF? Is 1 MVP and 2 batting titles an automatic?

[58pinson]

Wow! This poll looks like a swing state presidential election. Yes for me, and not even close.

[Rhotchkiss]

As I post this, it’s 67 yes and 66 no. I voted no.

Anyway, I feel that if the guy was a true HOFer, it would not be a 50/50 split in opinion

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by Jim65

What defines a period of time? He was one of the best players for a 3 year period 1977-79. Is that enough for the HOF? Is 1 MVP and 2 batting titles an automatic?

He was third in mvp voting in 1975, 2nd in 1985 and 5th in 1986. He received mvp votes in nine seasons. I think he’s borderline, but i voted yes because in his prime he was the most feared player in the National League.

You know what he didn’t do? He didn’t walk. If you don’t walk and you don’t hit for a lot of power, WAR hates you. And in his era, walks and on base percentage were not valued the way they are now.

[Seven]

I voted no, but I also believe in a Small Hall so I'm not the best to ask.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Ricky

He was third in mvp voting in 1975, 2nd in 1985 and 5th in 1986. He received mvp votes in nine seasons. I think he’s borderline, but i voted yes because in his prime he was the most feared player in the National League.

You know what he didn’t do? He didn’t walk. If you don’t walk and you don’t hit for a lot of power, WAR hates you. And in his era, walks and on base percentage were not valued the way they are now.

Where is this most feared player coming from? Compare his power numbers to Schmidt.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Where is this most feared player coming from? Compare his power numbers to Schmidt.

You’re right about Schmidt. Let’s say then that Parker was one of the most feared hitters in the National League in his prime. I remember him well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Ricky

You’re right about Schmidt. Let’s say then that Parker was one of the most feared hitters in the National League in his prime. I remember him well.

Agreed.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Ricky

You’re right about Schmidt. Let’s say then that Parker was one of the most feared hitters in the National League in his prime. I remember him well.

And he hit behind Stargell. I can't recall a more feared duo at that time. (no disrespect to The Bull intended)

[Jersey City Giants]

Originally Posted by Jason19th

He may not be a clear Hofer but he is also not just an above average player with a long career. He was in the top 20 for MVP voting 9 times and made 7 all stars teams. He also won multiple gold gloves. That is an impact that player for a long time not just a compiler. I have always been a big proponent of WAR so I have to acknowledge that his is low. If he had played in an era that valued walks and/or was able to take walk his war would be much higher.

I think the real problem is that he is some much better then a bunch of guys in the hall that it seems like he should be in. I understand that most of those guys - I am thinking the Chick Haley, Jim Bottemly, Harold Baines, Ross Youngs type- were also mistakes and should not be basis for future inductions. But it still feels wrong that they are in and he is out.

Yep, people just like to make stupid comments. I say clearly yes given where the standards have clearly gone for induction. He was a feared hitter in his prime, absolutely feared.