Baseball Is Dying

[Hankphenom]

Looking at the box scores from yesterday's games, it's clear they need to change the rules on who gets the win--and I mean right now, today. I couldn't believe how many teams used eight or more pitchers, and how few starters went five. I know it's a trend of long standing, but reading the paper (another endangered species, oh how I will miss the page with all the box scores from the day before!), the start of this season struck me as truly revolutionary for the amazing number of pitchers used in so many games by both teams. And that's with a requirement that they go at least three batters!

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Looking at the box scores from yesterday's games, it's clear they need to change the rules on who gets the win--and I mean right now, today. I couldn't believe how many teams used eight or more pitchers, and how few starters went five. I know it's a trend of long standing, but reading the paper (another endangered species, oh how I will miss the page with all the box scores from the day before!), the start of this season struck me as truly revolutionary for the amazing number of pitchers used in so many games by both teams. And that's with a requirement that they go at least three batters!

Not to disagree with your overall point, but I'd attribute some of the unusually low pitch counts for starters so far this year to the abbreviated spring training. Just a few examples I quickly pulled up from yesterday:

Max Scherzer 80 pitches
Charlie Morton 78 pitches
Walker Buehler 78 pitches

These guys will be almost certainly be going deeper into games as the season goes on.

[Yoda]

While I agree a pitcher's clock would undoubtedly speed games up, what gets me are some, not all, batters who when before they bat perform their own personal ritual, which includes but is not limited to:

1. Giving the old huevos a good tug and scratch.
2. Sticking a finger in a nostril or ear to see that all is well.
3. Digging around their backside for an invisible wedgie.
4. Repeat #3.
5. Kiss their bling and look hopefully skyward.

Then and only then, after scowling at the earth for an interminable time, might they be ready to step into the batters box.

Owners and umpires must do something to improve game time or fans who are already suffering from the boredom syndrome might drift away altogether in greater numbers.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Yoda

While I agree a pitcher's clock would undoubtedly speed games up, what gets me are some, not all, batters who when before they bat perform their own personal ritual, which includes but is not limited to:

1. Giving the old huevos a good tug and scratch.
2. Sticking a finger in a nostril or ear to see that all is well.
3. Digging around their backside for an invisible wedgie.
4. Repeat #3.
5. Kiss their bling and look hopefully skyward.

Then and only then, after scowling at the earth for an interminable time, might they be ready to step into the batters box.

Owners and umpires must do something to improve game time or fans who are already suffering from the boredom syndrome might drift away altogether in greater numbers.

For the life of me, I can't see what's wrong with a rule that makes batters stay in the box, pitchers on the mound, and runners on the bases unless they have a reason to leave and are cleared by the umps to do so.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

For the life of me, I can't see what's wrong with a rule that makes batters stay in the box, pitchers on the mound, and runners on the bases unless they have a reason to leave and are cleared by the umps to do so.

Agree.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Yoda

While I agree a pitcher's clock would undoubtedly speed games up, what gets me are some, not all, batters who when before they bat perform their own personal ritual, which includes but is not limited to:

1. Giving the old huevos a good tug and scratch.
2. Sticking a finger in a nostril or ear to see that all is well.
3. Digging around their backside for an invisible wedgie.
4. Repeat #3.
5. Kiss their bling and look hopefully skyward.

Then and only then, after scowling at the earth for an interminable time, might they be ready to step into the batters box.

Owners and umpires must do something to improve game time or fans who are already suffering from the boredom syndrome might drift away altogether in greater numbers.

Ha! Mike Hargrove's nickname from his playing days from 1974-85 was "the human rain delay". So they had batters that took a lot of time at the plate back in the day as well.

[Shemp]

Hargrove was one of the first, maybe even the first, batter to get away with the routines. Most hitters would stay in the box. Pitchers like Gibson or Drysdale wouldn't allow batters to control the tempo of an at bat.

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by Yoda

While I agree a pitcher's clock would undoubtedly speed games up, what gets me are some, not all, batters who when before they bat perform their own personal ritual, which includes but is not limited to:

My understanding is that with the most recent pitch clock rules being tested this year, batters must be in the box ready to hit with 9 seconds left on the clock.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

My understanding is that with the most recent pitch clock rules being tested this year, batters must be in the box ready to hit with 9 seconds left on the clock.

What would speed things up would be to cut 5 minutes of commercials every half inning. All the other stuff aside, that is how you speed the game up. But you can't do that, because you absolutely have to have the commercials.

I have close to 300 old radio broadcasts of complete games from the 1934 All-Star Game (oldest known to exist) up to the 1960s, and 114 TV broadcasts of complete games from games 6 and 7 of the 1952 World Series (oldest known to exist) up to today. Almost all the radio broadcasts are about 2 hours 30 minutes, + or -, with nothing cut out or edited, for 9 innings. The TV broadcasts are the same, until you get up into the 1970s, and then they start getting longer and longer due to numerous commercials.

Tinkering with the fundamental rules of baseball is not making the game better, in my humble opinion here. I do not know anyone, young or old, who like any of the rule changes, from 4-finger intentional walks to starting extra innings with a man on 2nd.

The only way to get games back to 2 hours and a half is to cut the commercials. But when Aaron Judge has to have $360 million (or more), it's not gonna happen.

[Shoeless Moe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxengxwzZ8o

[Shoeless Moe]

and.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BWigolLwYU

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by jingram058

What would speed things up would be to cut 5 minutes of commercials every half inning. All the other stuff aside, that is how you speed the game up. But you can't do that, because you absolutely have to have the commercials.

I have close to 300 old radio broadcasts of complete games from the 1934 All-Star Game (oldest known to exist) up to the 1960s, and 114 TV broadcasts of complete games from games 6 and 7 of the 1952 World Series (oldest known to exist) up to today. Almost all the radio broadcasts are about 2 hours 30 minutes, + or -, with nothing cut out or edited, for 9 innings. The TV broadcasts are the same, until you get up into the 1970s, and then they start getting longer and longer due to numerous commercials.

Tinkering with the fundamental rules of baseball is not making the game better, in my humble opinion here. I do not know anyone, young or old, who like any of the rule changes, from 4-finger intentional walks to starting extra innings with a man on 2nd.

The only way to get games back to 2 hours and a half is to cut the commercials. But when Aaron Judge has to have $360 million (or more), it's not gonna happen.

I think you have stated several times that commercials are the cause. Removing "5 min of commercials every half inning" would result in approximately -2 minutes of commercials.

Here is an interesting study that was done to analyze whether a 20 second pitch clock would speed up games:
https://sabr.org/journal/article/tim...of-long-games/

[Hankphenom]

More frequent pitching changes must have added a ton of time to the games from earlier decades. What does it take, maybe ten minutes, to get a new pitcher in the game, from the departing pitchers final pitch, manager's trip to the mound, in from the bullpen, warmup, etc.? I'd guess there are something like five more pitchers in the average game now compared to, say, 1960 or earlier?

[brass_rat]

That's an interesting article, Jim, thanks.

The conclusion that 20 seconds didn't help is the reason for decreasing the clock to 14 seconds bases empty and 17 seconds with men on.

While the time decrease may not be significant there, it does reduce the recovery time between pitches resulting in pitchers not using max effort on every pitch and pitching to contact more, resulting in shorter at-bats and more action.

If they'd get rid of batter walk-up music, they could shorten that 1 minute lag between batters -- further reducing recovery time and keeping some rhythm.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Not to disagree with your overall point, but I'd attribute some of the unusually low pitch counts for starters so far this year to the abbreviated spring training. Just a few examples I quickly pulled up from yesterday:

Max Scherzer 80 pitches
Charlie Morton 78 pitches
Walker Buehler 78 pitches

These guys will be almost certainly be going deeper into games as the season goes on.

Excellent points, but man, there were a lot of long lists of pitchers used!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Not to disagree with your overall point, but I'd attribute some of the unusually low pitch counts for starters so far this year to the abbreviated spring training. Just a few examples I quickly pulled up from yesterday:

Max Scherzer 80 pitches
Charlie Morton 78 pitches
Walker Buehler 78 pitches

These guys will be almost certainly be going deeper into games as the season goes on.

Can't argue with that logic. With the abbreviated Spring training, and long season yet to come, can easily understand teams sort of extending Spring training into the earliest part of the season/year, at least for pitchers.