M101-4 George Sisler eBay Auction Results

[terjung]

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

Agree, John (except that Sisler was not in the inaugural HOF class). This is the rookie card for a top-tier HOF player. Granted, I've never seen one go quite as high, but it's hardly a shock.

Actually, I think his M101-5 where he is labeled as a pitcher instead of 1B is considered his true rookie, but I digress. As a Sisler collector, I was pleasantly surprised to see this price as well. I'd like to have had it for my collection, but I wasn't bidding on it.

Here is a couple other tougher M101-4s because threads need cards...

[mrreality68]

Great player still a WOW price

But that’s the fun of the card market today I guess

[Exhibitman]

I think we are at a point where you can throw the book out the window when it comes to auctions of prewar HOFers and especially RCs. And a Sisler card:

[Peter_Spaeth]

He doesn't fare so well using the more modern metrics. Using JAWS he is only the 19th rated 1st baseman, and if I recall correctly, Bill James called him the most overrated player ever.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He doesn't fare so well using the more modern metrics. Using JAWS he is only the 19th rated 1st baseman, and if I recall correctly, Bill James called him the most overrated player ever.

Lemme take a wild guess...no Sisler rookie or Sisler cards in your collection.

[pawpawdiv9]

Not mine, but wish i could for my collection, but not at that $$$---nedless to say my offers are very low compared to asking price

[PhillyFan1883]

Sisler had one of the greatest seasons in mlb history. Excellent player, offensively and defensively- great rookie card From a still a underrated set. Happy to see these cards finally getting some love. Not surprising to me- these cards should be worth more given total populations and historical significance on the big time hof rookies like this one.. . The set is following the heavy weight ruth RC, Jackson, and Thorpe m101s of the world.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by PhillyFan1883

Sisler had one of the greatest seasons in mlb history. Excellent player, offensively and defensively- great rookie card From a still a underrated set. Happy to see these cards finally getting some love. Not surprising to me- these cards should be worth more given total populations and historical significance on the big time hof rookies like this one.. . The set is following the heavy weight ruth RC, Jackson, and Thorpe m101s of the world.

Tru dat!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He doesn't fare so well using the more modern metrics. Using JAWS he is only the 19th rated 1st baseman, and if I recall correctly, Bill James called him the most overrated player ever.

Did Bill James ever see him play in person, or even have video/TV clips to see how he actually played? There's a lot to be said about how the contemporaries of players may have a lot better handle on how good they actually are/were for the time. Also, the stats and numbers people like James use are borne and derived from the more modern game, and IMO do not properly or fully take in the context and changes that have occurred over the years.

The use of modern statistics has a bit of an inbred bias IMO, in that it is a more accurate measure of the modern game and doesn't always reflect what is truly significant or important for a different period of time. I love hearing how a lot of these modern know-it-all types will always say things like how this player or that player couldn't hold a candle to a player from today, and how bad that long-ago player would perform if they suited up today. What they don't realize is that if their favorite player from today was to go back 100-120 years and suit up to play back then, they'd possibly get their ass kicked. But because the people and players from back then aren't still around to tell such people to STFU, they smugly get away with their claims because they know they can never definitively be proven wrong. And it doesn't matter that they can never be definitively proven right either, they just keep shouting down anyone who doesn't think like and agree with them. Really sad it is like that, and to me indicates a lack of understanding and intelligence.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

Did Bill James ever see him play in person, or even have video/TV clips to see how he actually played? There's a lot to be said about how the contemporaries of players may have a lot better handle on how good they actually are/were for the time. Also, the stats and numbers people like James use are borne and derived from the more modern game, and IMO do not properly or fully take in the context and changes that have occurred over the years.

The use of modern statistics has a bit of an inbred bias IMO, in that it is a more accurate measure of the modern game and doesn't always reflect what is truly significant or important for a different period of time. I love hearing how a lot of these modern know-it-all types will always say things like how this player or that player couldn't hold a candle to a player from today, and how bad that long-ago player would perform if they suited up today. What they don't realize is that if their favorite player from today was to go back 100-120 years and suit up to play back then, they'd possibly get their ass kicked. But because the people and players from back then aren't still around to tell such people to STFU, they smugly get away with their claims because they know they can never definitively be proven wrong. And it doesn't matter that they can never be definitively proven right either, they just keep shouting down anyone who doesn't think like and agree with them. Really sad it is like that, and to me indicates a lack of understanding and intelligence.

Ruth Speaker Wagner Gehrig Cobb Hornsby and many others do JUST FINE under sabermetrics. Sisler is the only one I can think of he rates notably lower than some of the traditional rankings, maybe Heilmann too.

[nolemmings]

Sisler's career was badly hampered by a sinus infection after the 1922 season that affected his vision and hindered his ability. He missed all of 1923, on the heels of a .420 season with 257 hits, which cost him membership in the 3000 hit club. Check out his numbers seasons 1-8 compared to those thereafter.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ruth Speaker Wagner Gehrig Cobb Hornsby and many others do JUST FINE under sabermetrics. Sisler is the only one I can think of he rates notably lower than some of the traditional rankings, maybe Heilmann too.

Wasn't pointing out Sisler specifically, but speaking in general. And my comments are not directed at you. The way you bring him up though shows you can usually find an exception or two to anything, but that doesn't really prove anything. Some people will latch onto exceptions like that though and keep repeating it ad nauseum, to drown out those that don't automatically always agree with them. That seems to be the thing about statistics and statisticians, when something doesn't neatly fit and go along with their numbers, it is everyone else that is wrong or doesn't get it. God forbid their formulas or equations could ever be wrong. So, they will rationalize away how they and their numbers are always right, and everyone else is wrong. There is a reason Sisler's contemporaries and peers put him into the HOF

It is funny how people will argue that someone like Koufax should be the greatest lefty of all-time because he had a few peak years he was so great. Well look what happened to Sisler's career after he missed a year for health reasons, why doesn't he get the same peak years consideration that Koufax often gets? In addition, Sisler should be even more deserving of such consideration, his weaker years were likely due to health issues. What took Koufax so long till the latter part of his career to finally figure out what the hell he was doing. If Koufax was so great, you would expect him to be good from the start. Of course, some contrarian troll will probably jump on and whine about how I'm wrong because Koufax was a pitcher and Sisler wasn't, so it isn't the same thing for them. And that is exactly the kind of horse $hit they throw around to keep making themselves always look like they're right, while everyone else is always wrong.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ruth Speaker Wagner Gehrig Cobb Hornsby and many others do JUST FINE under sabermetrics. Sisler is the only one I can think of he rates notably lower than some of the traditional rankings, maybe Heilmann too.

So what?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He doesn't fare so well using the more modern metrics. Using JAWS he is only the 19th rated 1st baseman, and if I recall correctly, Bill James called him the most overrated player ever.

He doesn't have a super long prime, but his 7 year WAR peak is 7th All-Time among 1st baseman.

His biggest sin analytically, is that he didn't walk very much.

Different position, but he seems to profile very closely offensively to Ichiro, if Ichiro hadn't stuck around so long and junked a lot of his lifetime analytical averages. Tony Gwynn also comes to mind.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

He doesn't have a super long prime, but his 7 year WAR peak is 7th All-Time among 1st baseman.

His biggest sin analytically, is that he didn't walk very much.

Different position, but he seems to profile very closely offensively to Ichiro, if Ichiro hadn't stuck around so long and junked a lot of his lifetime analytical averages. Tony Gwynn also comes to mind.

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