rare Willie Mays cards

[VintageHoarder]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

'fraid not. Here is the 1951 issue checklist:



It is early but consensus among those who study the cards is that "Made in USA" was used from 1951-1953, so between that and the checklist, not a RC but definitely an undervalued early card.

This is an Exhibit rookie. Mays, for one, didn't play in 1952 or 1953, due to being drafted to the Korean War; secondly, the anniversary patch on his sleeve on that card was only worn in 1951. This patch was to celebrate the 75th anniversary of the National League, which was celebrated in 1951. American League also had a patch for that year, and Mantle can be found in this set with his patch, as well. I don't care what the checklist indicates...that patch says it all.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by VintageHoarder

This is an Exhibit rookie. Mays, for one, didn't play in 1952 or 1953, due to being drafted to the Korean War; secondly, the anniversary patch on his sleeve on that card was only worn in 1951. This patch was to celebrate the 75th anniversary of the National League, which was celebrated in 1951. American League also had a patch for that year, and Mantle can be found in this set with his patch, as well. I don't care what the checklist indicates...that patch says it all.

Classically bad reasoning backed up by factual errors:

1. If the patch is from the 1951 season, it proves only that the photo was taken in 1951, not that the card was made in 1951. More likely is that the card was made for the 1952 run since Mays is not on the 1951 checklist and was voted ROY for 1951. ESCO was not in the habit of producing cards of untested rookies, but would have added a ROY to the run for the next season.

2. Contrary to your statement, Mays did play in 1952. He played in 34 games. In fact, in his last game in 1952 he was given an ovation at Ebbets' Field in recognition of his service.

3. The fact that you "don't care what the checklist indicates" is irrelevant. The checklist exists and Mays is not on it.

I understand that you have a financial stake in proving that the cards you hoarded are Mays rookies, but the facts do not support your statements.

[VintageHoarder]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Classically bad reasoning backed up by factual errors:

1. If the patch is from the 1951 season, it proves only that the photo was taken in 1951, not that the card was made in 1951. More likely is that the card was made for the 1952 run since Mays is not on the 1951 checklist and was voted ROY for 1951. ESCO was not in the habit of producing cards of untested rookies, but would have added a ROY to the run for the next season.

2. Contrary to your statement, Mays did play in 1952. He played in 34 games. In fact, in his last game in 1952 he was given an ovation at Ebbets' Field in recognition of his service.

3. The fact that you "don't care what the checklist indicates" is irrelevant. The checklist exists and Mays is not on it.

I understand that you have a financial stake in proving that the cards you hoarded are Mays rookies, but the facts do not support your statements.

Oh, you mean the checklist you provided thats been scribbled on and altered? The same checklist where Philadelphia was scribbled out to jot down the 1951 New York Giants team Card? That card also has Mays and it specifically says "1951 New York Giants National Champions." That card also is not originally printed on the checklist, but you or someone else made sure it was there. The checklist was jotted on and altered,, indicating that you yourself (or someone else) does not trust the checklist. That team card sayd 1951 on it,, but you going to dispute that, too,, even though its been altered in and fixed to suit the checklist? The facts are there with the patch. The patch does exist and it was only used in 1951, regardless of whether the card was 1952 or not. You or I cannot prove the exact year it was printed, just the same as we can't prove the Giants team card was or wasn't printed in 1951. It does say "1951" at the bottom and has the exact same print of Made in USA on it. From the best of my knowledge, people take this at face value and do not argue whether something is or isn't when facts are presented.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by VintageHoarder

Oh, you mean the checklist you provided thats been scribbled on and altered? The same checklist where Philadelphia was scribbled out to jot down the 1951 New York Giants team Card? That card also has Mays and it specifically says "1951 New York Giants National Champions." That card also is not originally printed on the checklist, but you or someone else made sure it was there. The checklist was jotted on and altered,, indicating that you yourself (or someone else) does not trust the checklist. That team card sayd 1951 on it,, but you going to dispute that, too,, even though its been altered in and fixed to suit the checklist? The facts are there with the patch. The patch does exist and it was only used in 1951, regardless of whether the card was 1952 or not. You or I cannot prove the exact year it was printed, just the same as we can't prove the Giants team card was or wasn't printed in 1951. It does say "1951" at the bottom and has the exact same print of Made in USA on it. From the best of my knowledge, people take this at face value and do not argue whether something is or isn't when facts are presented.

Don't trust the checklist. That's a new one.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[VintageHoarder]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Don't trust the checklist. That's a new one.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Somebody didn't trust it or it wouldn't have been altered. 🤷Alterations are clearly made on it.

[ALBB]

" Fraid not" ! LOL

as kids that was used a lot....went back and forth arguing with a pal - " fraid not..fraid so..fraid not.... the good ole days LOL

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by VintageHoarder

Oh, you mean the checklist you provided thats been scribbled on and altered? The same checklist where Philadelphia was scribbled out to jot down the 1951 New York Giants team Card? That card also has Mays and it specifically says "1951 New York Giants National Champions." That card also is not originally printed on the checklist, but you or someone else made sure it was there. The checklist was jotted on and altered,, indicating that you yourself (or someone else) does not trust the checklist. That team card sayd 1951 on it,, but you going to dispute that, too,, even though its been altered in and fixed to suit the checklist? The facts are there with the patch. The patch does exist and it was only used in 1951, regardless of whether the card was 1952 or not. You or I cannot prove the exact year it was printed, just the same as we can't prove the Giants team card was or wasn't printed in 1951. It does say "1951" at the bottom and has the exact same print of Made in USA on it. From the best of my knowledge, people take this at face value and do not argue whether something is or isn't when facts are presented.

The checklist could only have been made after the 1950 season because the Phillies and Yankees were the teams and that was the 1950 WS. As for the scribblings, that's not a valid argument: I could have made those yesterday. If you write "1951" on a card it doesn't mean the card is a 1951.

[VintageHoarder]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The checklist could only have been made after the 1950 season because the Phillies and Yankees were the teams and that was the 1950 WS. As for the scribblings, that's not a valid argument: I could have made those yesterday. If you write "1951" on a card it doesn't mean the card is a 1951.

Maybe 1950, but I doubt it was anything after. There's Phillies and Yankees team cards in this set from late 40s/1950. Im just saying there's also a Giants 1951 team card that Exhibit made, which you or someone scribbled that particular card onto the checklist. Doesn't matter when the scribbling/alterations was made....point I'm making is that the 1951 Giants team card obviously doesn't belong to this particular set or it would've been printed on the checklist by Exhibit Supply Co. You jotting that team card in or making any other alterations on that checklist, doesn't validate it and make it part of the set. Furthermore, I don't see a date or anything on that checklist that indicates it's a 1951, or therefore, any particular year for that matter. There's no proof anywhere that these can be dated, and that's obviously including the checklists that were made. Altering a checklist to call it 1951, doesn't make it a 1951. It just simply means you scribbled and altered a checklist and made it inaccurate. Im just calling it as I see it. Whether these are 1951 or 1952, they're neat cards and are definitely very undervalued.

[frankh8147]

I just wanted to take the time to thank you both for my new 1951 - 1953 Exhibit Mays cards (arriving in a few days). I truly love this site

[Exhibitman]

Dude, you're just digging yourself a bigger hole. There is proof of dating, right on the cards themselves. ESCO made two team cards each year: the pennant winners in each league from the prior season (stopped in 1956). Here's the 1952 printing of the Yankees card:



Notice that it says "1951 World Champions"? Well, when did the Yankees become the 1951 champs? In October 1951. Here's the 1949 Cleveland Indians card:



See the split legend at the bottom? That was a feature of only the 1949 print run. That card shows the 1948 champs from a 1949 printing. I wish it was a 1948 because it would have Paige and Doby rookies.

If you actually look at the Phillies card:



It designates the team as 1950 NL champs. It is from the 1951 print run. Not 1950 because they wouldn't have known who was going to win the 1950 pennants until the season was over.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but the facts are what they are. Your refusal to recognize them just makes you look like you are cravenly trying to boost the value of the Mays cards you are hoarding.