Neal Ball items on Antique roadshow that belong to his great niece.

[Leon]

Nice clip. I think in today's environment it might ecplise 15K, the estimate given.
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[z28jd]

While I disagree with Ball having the first unassisted triple play after scouring through reports about Paul Hines and his triple play in 1878, that doesn't take away how cool these items are, and it's great that she shared them.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by z28jd

While I disagree with Ball having the first unassisted triple play after scouring through reports about Paul Hines and his triple play in 1878, that doesn't take away how cool these items are, and it's great that she shared them.

The Hines triple play was an interesting read John I don't remember ever reading about that before.

There are a few different versions of what exactly happened on the play but if the rules involved in the play were basically the same as todays rules which they seemed to be from the reports at that time it wasn't an unassisted triple play under any of the versions I read.

The people that claim it was an unassisted triple play put Sutton who was initially on second base past third base behind Manning who was on third base initially and was between third and home on the play. They claim that when Hines stepped on third he completed the unassisted triple play but that would be incorrect if the rules were the same as today's. Two players can't occupy the same base so you can't get two people out by simply stepping on a single base Hines would have had to tag Sutton for the unassisted triple play or step on second base but he threw the ball to Sweasy at second to complete the triple play.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Pat R

The Hines triple play was an interesting read John I don't remember ever reading about that before.

There are a few different versions of what exactly happened on the play but if the rules involved in the play were basically the same as todays rules which they seemed to be from the reports at that time it wasn't an unassisted triple play under any of the versions I read.

The people that claim it was an unassisted triple play put Sutton who was initially on second base past third base behind Manning who was on third base initially and was between third and home on the play. They claim that when Hines stepped on third he completed the unassisted triple play but that would be incorrect if the rules were the same as today's. Two players can't occupy the same base so you can't get two people out by simply stepping on a single base Hines would have had to tag Sutton for the unassisted triple play or step on second base but he threw the ball to Sweasy at second to complete the triple play.

Your asterisks are what makes it a triple play in my mind, because the rules weren't the same back then. If a player passed a bag, you just needed to touch the bag to get an out, so both Sutton and Manning were out as soon as Hines touched third base and the throw was unnecessary. Basically back then, if the runners were on first and second to start the play and Hines caught the ball with both players eventually rounding third base, he could have tagged third base and nothing else to get the outs, even though neither of them started on third base. As long as they were both still on the home plate side of third base, they would have been out. He also could have tagged second base in that instance and got the same exact results

The question part about the triple plays seems to come from one person saying that he had to make the throw to second because Sutton was running back. That seems impossible to me because for that to happen, Hines would have had to run past Sutton but not be able to tag him, yet he still had time to get to third base and make the throw. Nowhere in any game reports does it mention Sutton trying to avoid a tag or running back to second as Hines made the play.

[z28jd]

This recap from the May 9, 1878 Boston Globe has an extremely detailed recap of the entire game, including this part about the play in question:

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Pawn Star chrome dome Rick would offer $100 for it and say there is no market. Or call in his expert who has memorized his lines about Neal Ball.

[T206Collector]

One of my favorites….