Local John Stockton Mask Controversy

[Peter_Spaeth]

Dale that's one hell of a conspiracy you are imagining there, and I assume it's global not just the U.S./Canada. I wonder how "they" all manage to stay on the same page every day. Conference call/zoom call with 1000s of participants, maybe? Massive listserv emails? How did it start by the way? Who's in charge?

But let's talk about a specific issue. Since you made such a big deal pushing the idea that the Pfizer vax wasn't really approved, that some phantom product was, and that the vaccines were still "experimental," talk to me about Moderna and its approval now, I need to keep up. One of your Twitter feeds must have the party line, no?

Let me guess. The party line has now shifted from "experimental vaccines" to the FDA is just part of the conspiracy and Big Pharma paid for the approval. Let me know. Also let me know if you have an explanation other than changing the subject for all the data showing vaccines and boosters do help a great deal, if not perfectly, keeping people out of the hospital and from dying. Or is all that data a lie, and everyone involved in its collection and analysis a liar?

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dale that's one hell of a conspiracy you are imagining there, and I assume it's global not just the U.S./Canada. I wonder how "they" all manage to stay on the same page every day. Conference call/zoom call with 1000s of participants, maybe? Massive listserv emails? How did it start by the way? Who's in charge?

But let's talk about a specific issue. Since you made such a big deal pushing the idea that the Pfizer vax wasn't really approved, that some phantom product was, and that the vaccines were still "experimental," talk to me about Moderna and its approval now, I need to keep up. One of your Twitter feeds must have the party line, no?

Let me guess. The party line has now shifted from "experimental vaccines" to the FDA is just part of the conspiracy and Big Pharma paid for the approval. Let me know. Also let me know if you have an explanation other than changing the subject for all the data showing vaccines and boosters do help a great deal, if not perfectly, keeping people out of the hospital and from dying. Or is all that data a lie, and everyone involved in its collection and analysis a liar?

What I find funny and what happens quite often with you, Peter, is you never acknowledge anything I post. Just straight to the insults like I dreamt them up and wrote them down myself.
I try hard, or at least I think I do, to factcheck/verify everything I post but I guess actual news stories from reliable sources and videos from other people in the know are not good enough for you?

Vids of Fauci, the CDC, the inventors of the PCR and the vaccines themselves is all fake news, conspiracy theories to you.

Regardless, you obviously think everything is above board and nothing has changed as far as the truth being told, so there is no sense carrying on with you. You are either blind or have a ton of money invested in pharmaceuticals, or maybe both, so continue to believe and boost away, Peter. We'll get there some day, herd immunity is just around the corner!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by irv

What I find funny and what happens quite often with you, Peter, is you never acknowledge anything I post. Just straight to the insults like I dreamt them up and wrote them down myself.
I try hard, or at least I think I do, to factcheck/verify everything I post but I guess actual news stories from reliable sources and videos from other people in the know are not good enough for you?

Vids of Fauci, the CDC, the inventors of the PCR and the vaccines themselves is all fake news, conspiracy theories to you.

Regardless, you obviously think everything is above board and nothing has changed as far as the truth being told, so there is no sense carrying on with you. You are either blind or have a ton of money invested in pharmaceuticals, or maybe both, so continue to believe and boost away, Peter. We'll get there some day, herd immunity is just around the corner!

You have also avoided every direct question, even the simple yes or no one.

My one question Dale. Do you think less people would have died without the vaccines and quarantines? Just a simple yes or no because I don't need any links or long explanation that doesn't give a yes or no answer.

OK a couple more and feel free to not answer them. Do you have any friends in real life that you actually hang out with? Has the area you live been hit by Covid? Do you know anyone in real life that has died form it? These are not meant to be insulting questions in any way.

I have a brother that we share a dad. He is the one that Covid has left him with health problems. I also have a brother that we share a mother. My brother that we share a mother lives in a different part of the country. Our mother died(not covid) and my brother took care of everything. I traveled to the funeral. My brother and his friends sounded exactly like you. He could tell I was getting upset and asked why. I asked if he knew anyone that died because he and his friends sounded like a bunch of morons. It got real quiet. He said no and that only 2 people in the entire county he lived in got it and it was very minor for them. That is why they all thought it was a big conspiracy. They had not seen what Covid can do in real life. I explained how I have lost many friends and my other brother has long term health problems.

They all felt like idiots and apologized to me for their beyond stupid remarks. It also made me understand how someone could not take something so deadly serious and make stupid conspiracy theory remarks about it without having severe mental problems.

That is a very short version of why I feel the way I do.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Do you think less people would have died without the vaccines and quarantines? Just a simple yes or no because I don't need any links or long explanation that doesn't give a yes or no answer.

Not specifically directed at you but a jumping off point.

To the question as posed, No. But it ignores other aspects to our response (the unintended consequences), which we may never fully realize but do exist. Those whose health was impacted by imposed isolation and FUD being spread on how to deal with the virus. Should we ignore that? Those holding off on treatment, suicides, not to mention the cost of stress and other impacts. Or should we remove from the count the policies that were put in place that caused additional deaths (warehousing positive patients in nursing homes, as one example). What if we had let the let the virus run it's course initially? Could we have had more initial deaths but less in the long run? Who knows. So it's not a binary question and answer.

To be harsh, but if you really want to understand the impact to the population as a whole, you need to determine the lost 'time of life' to determine the true impact. In the extreme, it is a bigger 'loss of life' for a million children to die than a million elderly patients (of which I would be one). Back when I was paying attention to the numbers on the CDC website (late 2020) when there were hundreds of thousands of deaths but the total number of deaths for those under 18 were under 100 and those under 6 were ZERO. But of course that type of analysis doesn't play well to people's emotions beyond pissing some off into flippantly saying it is 'uncaring' to do that.

There are a lot of crackpot theories out there, but not all that disagree are basing it on crackpot theories either. And as to those questioning those who mistrust what the government and the experts are saying, why do you find that surprising? Have you not been paying attention for the past 8-10 years (and longer)?

[Republicaninmass]

Well if your revert back to the "flatten the curve" graph, it showed MORE deaths, but over a longer period of time as poosed to everyone getting it, and "overwhelming " hospitals.

Deaths were not our priority, it was trying to get people treated. The most susceptible to death, due to numerous factors, given a priority.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by tschock

Not specifically directed at you but a jumping off point.

To the question as posed, No. But it ignores other aspects to our response (the unintended consequences), which we may never fully realize but do exist. Those whose health was impacted by imposed isolation and FUD being spread on how to deal with the virus. Should we ignore that? Those holding off on treatment, suicides, not to mention the cost of stress and other impacts. Or should we remove from the count the policies that were put in place that caused additional deaths (warehousing positive patients in nursing homes, as one example). What if we had let the let the virus run it's course initially? Could we have had more initial deaths but less in the long run? Who knows. So it's not a binary question and answer.

To be harsh, but if you really want to understand the impact to the population as a whole, you need to determine the lost 'time of life' to determine the true impact. In the extreme, it is a bigger 'loss of life' for a million children to die than a million elderly patients (of which I would be one). Back when I was paying attention to the numbers on the CDC website (late 2020) when there were hundreds of thousands of deaths but the total number of deaths for those under 18 were under 100 and those under 6 were ZERO. But of course that type of analysis doesn't play well to people's emotions beyond pissing some off into flippantly saying it is 'uncaring' to do that.

There are a lot of crackpot theories out there, but not all that disagree are basing it on crackpot theories either. And as to those questioning those who mistrust what the government and the experts are saying, why do you find that surprising? Have you not been paying attention for the past 8-10 years (and longer)?

I agree with a lot of what you posted. My opinion on the quarantine being good was just to not overwhelm the hospitals more than they where at the beginning.

Besides the crazy conspiracy theories I probably have the weirdest opinions on here. I just get pissed about the people that think it is fake or some government way to control the public. At this point I think they just need to open everything back up to normal and those that die, die. As a former athlete I feel so sorry for all the missed opportunities for them during this. Most have such a short window to compete.

Have a great day everyone.