Player-Managers

[Jim65]

Pete Rose was the last, correct?

I remember when Joe Torre was player/manager of the Mets.

[mrreality68]

Yes Pete Rose Was the last.

I believe it was used for 2 primary reasons.

1. 1 player/manager is one salary vs 2 salary’s so the teams save money
2. A way to incentivize the player to play on your team so attracting the player and also as an attendance draw because usually the player manager was a popular player

The major drawer back to this is as the player can no longer play but perhaps keeps themselves active as their skills decline or ties up a roster spot

[BobC]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Yes Pete Rose Was the last.

I believe it was used for 2 primary reasons.

1. 1 player/manager is one salary vs 2 salary’s so the teams save money
2. A way to incentivize the player to play on your team so attracting the player and also as an attendance draw because usually the player manager was a popular player

The major drawer back to this is as the player can no longer play but perhaps keeps themselves active as their skills decline or ties up a roster spot

Jeff,

You hit the nail on the head as to the main "three" reasons for having player-managers. Your Reason #2 is actually two separate reasons, with the box office draw likely being the bigger reason. Figures at the end of the day it would be mostly about the money, right? And there are probably a lot more MLB player-managers than any of you ever thought or remember.

The first ever recognized MLB player-manager was John Clapp with the Middleton Mansfields, all the way back in 1872. In fact, starting with Clapp in 1872, there has continuously been at least one player-manager every single year in the majors through 1955. And yes, many of them were well known star players. For example, there were 11 different players inducted into the baseball HOF in it's first two initial election years. And of the first 11 players, 9 of them were MLB player-managers at some point in their careers, with the two notable exceptions being Babe Ruth and Walter Johnson. As a matter of fact, a total of 63 HOFers have been MLB player-managers at some point. But before you go assuming it is all about the star power, I'll have you know there are an additional 159 non-HOFers (which includes Pete Rose and Hal Chase) who also served as MLB player-managers. So it is more so not about just the superstar players after all.

And as earlier posted, Pete Rose in 1984-86 was indeed the last player-manager (for the Reds) ever in the majors. However, subsequent to Rose's tenure, there were talks/rumors about the likes of Paul Molitor, Barry Larkin, and Paul Konerko undertaking the task of player-manager, but no one pulled the trigger. Don't know if we'll ever see another player-manager in the majors, ever again. Based on what happened with the Astro's, it potentially gives a team an extra an person/player to be punished by MLB before it gets to the players. And teams today don't really worry about having enough to pay a manager.

Here's a good question. Without looking it up, of the 222 total number of player-managers they've had in the major leagues, what position has produced the most player-managers, and what position has produced the least? And the position choices are: P C 1B 2B SS 3B OF

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Originally Posted by BobC

Jeff,


Here's a good question. Without looking it up, of the 222 total number of player-managers they've had in the major leagues, what position has produced the most player-managers, and what position has produced the least? And the position choices are: P C 1B 2B SS 3B OF

I'll play! Without looking it up, I'll go with gut feel...in order from most to least, I would guess the positions that produced the most player managers are:

1B - Most
C
3B
SS
2B
OF
P - Least

[mrreality68]

Wow did not even realize that there was over 200 player managers.

Position wise my guess

Outfield most
1st base
Short stop
2nd base
Catcher
3rd base
Pitcher. Least

[BobC]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Wow did not even realize that there was over 200 player managers.

Position wise my guess

Outfield most
1st base
Short stop
2nd base
Catcher
3rd base
Pitcher. Least

Jeff,

You're on a roll today, and have the top and lowest spots on the money. Outfielders maybe have a bit of an unfair advantage in that the three OF positions are all considered as one group/position. Here's the list by position, and number of player-managers for each position.

OF - 55
C - 35
1B - 33
2B - 31
SS - 28
3B - 21
P - 19

I originally thought catchers might be at the top, given how much knowledge and respect they would always seem to get attributed with for calling games and handling pitching staffs. And if we were able to break down the OF into three separate positions (LF, CF, RF), they very well could end up in that top spot after all.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by thatkidfromjerrymaguire

I'll play! Without looking it up, I'll go with gut feel...in order from most to least, I would guess the positions that produced the most player managers are:

1B - Most
C
3B
SS
2B
OF
P - Least

John,

You've got the least one correct. Pitchers bring up the rear, with only 19 of the 222 player-managers coming from the pitching ranks. Top position is not 1st base though, they actually came in 3rd highest with 33 player-managers.

[Kidnapped18]

Originally Posted by BobC

John,

You've got the least one correct. Pitchers bring up the rear, with only 19 of the 222 player-managers coming from the pitching ranks. Top position is not 1st base though, they actually came in 3rd highest with 33 player-managers.

OF has to have the most (sheer numbers game OF comprises 3 positions so)

P has the least

[BuzzD]

Clark Griffith was early Yankees player-manager

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Originally Posted by BobC

John,

You've got the least one correct. Pitchers bring up the rear, with only 19 of the 222 player-managers coming from the pitching ranks. Top position is not 1st base though, they actually came in 3rd highest with 33 player-managers.

OK, great. I went with my gut and got 1 out 7 positions correct. This is one (of MANY) reasons I don't bet on sports

[BobC]

Originally Posted by thatkidfromjerrymaguire

OK, great. I went with my gut and got 1 out 7 positions correct. This is one (of MANY) reasons I don't bet on sports

LOL

You and me both.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Pete Rose was the last, correct?

I remember when Joe Torre was player/manager of the Mets.

Wow, forgot about both of them.

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Pete Rose was the first name that came to my mind when I saw the title of your post. Probably because 1987 Topps was my favorite set as a kid.

rose.jpg

[GeoPoto]

Washington had some sucess with it:

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1643828728
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1643828736

[Exhibitman]

I thought of Frank Robinson. He was the first one I became aware of.

[ALBB]

and Don Kessinger..I recall ??

[egri]

Joe Torre let Roger Clemens manage his last start in 2003 because it looked like he was going to retire that year, but it wasn't a regular thing.

[Schlesinj]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I thought of Frank Robinson. He was the first one I became aware of.

I believe listening to the Black Diamonds podcast he received a significantly lower offer to serve as both roles with the team. He was initially pissed, but he felt a higher value of accepting the offer to make a change as he felt if he declined it would hinder an opportunity for African American players in the future to serve as manager.

[Schlesinj]

Oscar Charleston served as player manager toward the backend of his career. I believe he said he would only play himself when he has the opportunity with the bases load or when RBI situations as he really only wanted to serve as manager at the time.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

I believe listening to the Black Diamonds podcast he received a significantly lower offer to serve as both roles with the team. He was initially pissed, but he felt a higher value of accepting the offer to make a change as he felt if he declined it would hinder an opportunity for African American players in the future to serve as manager.

I believe he was the first ever black manager in the majors (and no,I am not going back and counting the Negro leagues in this). And Cleveland makes sense, as they were right behind the Dodgers and Jackie Robinson by just three months in being the first team to integrate the American League with Larry Doby, And Cleveland was also the first major US city to elect a black mayor, Carl Stokes, in November of 1967. (And sorry, I don't consider Gary, Indiana a "major" US city.)

After he took over as the Indian's skipper, apparently he and starting pitcher Gaylord Perry did not quite see eye-to-eye on things.