I simply do not understand Modern - Doncic vs Mantle

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe I don't know the new BKB metrics, but if Doncic scores 5 more points with 4 more rebounds, it's not entirely obvious to me that Morant is clearly better? Where at least stat wise is this clear edge to Morant?

Good point. These stats alone certainly don't prove that. I brought up these stats mainly to counter Snowman's assertion that "Doncic is the best young player in the league and it's not close." Just these stats alone are clearly enough to refute that–Morant is a better pure scorer and pure point guard, while Doncic is a better rebounder and marginally better defender.

Statistically, they are trending in different directions, though: Morant has been better than Doncic this season overall by a fair margin, including more points scored per game.

I actually think it's the non-statistical stuff that makes Morant a better player. Morant makes his teammates better, while Doncic....does not. Watching both of them through their career, it's clear that Morant is a far more mature player (and person) than Doncic despite being younger.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Good point. These stats alone certainly don't prove that. I brought up these stats mainly to counter Snowman's assertion that "Doncic is the best young player in the league and it's not close." Just these stats alone are clearly enough to refute that–Morant is a better pure scorer and pure point guard, while Doncic is a better rebounder and marginally better defender.

Statistically, they are trending in different directions, though: Morant has been better than Doncic this season overall by a fair margin, including more points scored per game.

I actually think it's the non-statistical stuff that makes Morant a better player. Morant makes his teammates better, while Doncic....does not. Watching both of them through their career, it's clear that Morant is a far more mature player (and person) than Doncic despite being younger.

What's your assessment (recognizing that obviously it's speculative this early) of Morant's upside?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What's your assessment (recognizing that obviously it's speculative this early) of Morant's upside?

Allen Iverson with multiple championships and a longer career.

Optimists see Doncic's ceiling as a Euro-/Lite version of Magic Johnson, but for me that's a big stretch. He's a tall, thick point guard, but the comparison doesn't go beyond that for me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Allen Iverson with multiple championships and a longer career.

Optimists see Doncic's ceiling as a Euro-/Lite version of Magic Johnson, but for me that's a big stretch. He's a tall, thick point guard, but the comparison doesn't go beyond that for me.

Other than LeBron, I don't see anyone ever being as versatile as Magic was. He was a point guard who often moved down to power forward in the half court set, and in a pinch he could play freaking center and score 40 points in the NBA final, still one of the most amazing things I ever saw. He was a revolutionary too, nobody that big had ever played the point that well or maybe at all, nobody had ever ripped the ball out of the net and started a fast break off a made basket. And I don't think anyone had stood at the top of the key waiting for his forwards to cut and then whipped the ball between five people into someone's hands for a layup. If anything he is underrated lol.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Other than LeBron, I don't see anyone ever being as versatile as Magic was. He was a point guard who often moved down to power forward in the half court set, and in a pinch he could play freaking center and score 40 points in the NBA final, still one of the most amazing things I ever saw. He was a revolutionary too, nobody that big had ever played the point that well or maybe at all, nobody had ever ripped the ball out of the net and started a fast break off a made basket. And I don't think anyone had stood at the top of the key waiting for his forwards to cut and then whipped the ball between five people into someone's hands for a layup. If anything he is underrated lol.

I totally agree! I'm glad you mentioned LBJ though...the Lakers are struggling mightily this year but what he is doing at his age is truly remarkable: switching from point guard to center and dominating everyone at the position except the most elite big men.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I totally agree! I'm glad you mentioned LBJ though...the Lakers are struggling mightily this year but what he is doing at his age is truly remarkable: switching from point guard to center and dominating everyone at the position except the most elite big men.

I understand the dislike for the man, but he has been and still is an astonishingly good basketball player, the complete package.

[Peter_Spaeth]

BTW I saw Magic in college in 1979. It was like seeing the game through new eyes, he just played it in a way I had not seen before. I had a similar experience seeing David Thompson as a freshman, he had an unreal height on his jump shot and at least on this afternoon was just drilling everything in sight, scored 40.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Other than LeBron, I don't see anyone ever being as versatile as Magic was. He was a point guard who often moved down to power forward in the half court set, and in a pinch he could play freaking center and score 40 points in the NBA final, still one of the most amazing things I ever saw. He was a revolutionary too, nobody that big had ever played the point that well or maybe at all, nobody had ever ripped the ball out of the net and started a fast break off a made basket. And I don't think anyone had stood at the top of the key waiting for his forwards to cut and then whipped the ball between five people into someone's hands for a layup. If anything he is underrated lol.

Though he wasn't necessarily tall enough to go down low and play center against the likes of Chamberlain or Russell, I'd throw Oscar Robertson's hat into the ring. The man was a triple-double machine, back when people didn't really even know what that was yet. Of course that was early in his NBA career, and later on he fell more back into just acting as a point guard. And he was 6'-5", so definitely not short for back then.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

Though he wasn't necessarily tall enough to go down low and play center against the likes of Chamberlain or Russell, I'd throw Oscar Robertson's hat into the ring. The man was a triple-double machine, back when people didn't really even know what that was yet. Of course that was early in his NBA career, and later on he fell more back into just acting as a point guard. And he was 6'-5", so definitely not short for back then.

If I recall correctly, he and West both debuted in the same game. I wish I had seen Oscar although I remember him from Bucks playoff games.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I recall correctly, he and West both debuted in the same game. I wish I had seen Oscar although I remember him from Bucks playoff games.

Yeah I only saw Big O on TV. I do remember though going to see Bob Pettit play for the St. Louis Hawks in 1964. Looking at the box score Lenny Wilkins played for the Hawks that year so I guess I saw him too.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Other than LeBron, I don't see anyone ever being as versatile as Magic was. He was a point guard who often moved down to power forward in the half court set, and in a pinch he could play freaking center and score 40 points in the NBA final, still one of the most amazing things I ever saw. He was a revolutionary too, nobody that big had ever played the point that well or maybe at all, nobody had ever ripped the ball out of the net and started a fast break off a made basket. And I don't think anyone had stood at the top of the key waiting for his forwards to cut and then whipped the ball between five people into someone's hands for a layup. If anything he is underrated lol.

Yep. Watching Showtime all those years here in LA on local TV (yeah, that existed), it was just incredible, like I felt watching Dr. J with the Nets as a kid in NYC. The man was a magician out there. Grabs the ball and somehow it ends up in Worthy's hands for a finger roll or in Scott's hands for a jumper, or into Kareem for a skyhook.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Yep. Watching Showtime all those years here in LA on local TV (yeah, that existed), it was just incredible, like I felt watching Dr. J with the Nets as a kid in NYC. The man was a magician out there. Grabs the ball and somehow it ends up in Worthy's hands for a finger roll or in Scott's hands for a jumper, or into Kareem for a skyhook.

I've never seen this Magic Johnson card. Very cool.

I'm also looking forward to the series they're putting together on HBOMax, about the showtime Lakers. Should be a great watch.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Seven

I've never seen this Magic Johnson card. Very cool.

I'm also looking forward to the series they're putting together on HBOMax, about the showtime Lakers. Should be a great watch.

He and Bird were in the massive Sportscaster set.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Here's another Magic you don't see every day.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Snowman

...[Luka] is the most impressive young player in the league by a long shot...

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

This is an absurd statement. Ja Morant is a younger and better basketball player than Doncic. Every GM in the league would take Morant over Luka given the choice.

Originally Posted by Snowman

I'm A HUGE Ja Morant fan. Ever since murray state. I've been saying all along, "I don't know if Zion will pan out, but I KNOW Morant will be a superstar."

That said, he's still no Luka Doncic. Not even close. There isn't a single GM in the league who would take Morant over Luka. You don't know basketball if you think otherwise. You're a highlight reel watcher. Morant makes highlights. He's more fun to watch. But he's not a better player. Not even close.

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Lol!! You are insufferable, and this comment is so ignorant it's not worth continuing the debate even if you weren't so obnoxious...

Well, shucks. It didn't take long for the data to come in on that prediction Bobby "I lied about my real name during registration and tried to scam someone in the B/S/T forums" Strawberry.

ESPN just conducted a survey with 15 of the league's execs to see who they thought was the best young point guard in the NBA. 11 of the 15 execs chose Luka as their 1st pick. Looks like I was wrong about saying they would "all" choose Luka, as 4 of the 15 chose Morant. Nobody chose Trae Young, although a few idiots did pick Trae over Morant as their 2nd choice, and one imbecile had Morant with his 4th pick. Nobody had Luka lower than 2nd. However, as I prophesied earlier, he was the top choice and no, it wasn't close.

As for your prediction that "Every GM in the league would take Morant over Luka given the choice."... ya, that one sorta fell flat.

11-4. You lose. I'm shocked.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...floor-generals

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Well, shucks. It didn't take long for the data to come in on that prediction Bobby "I lied about my real name during registration and tried to scam someone in the B/S/T forums" Strawberry.

ESPN just conducted a survey with 15 of the league's execs to see who they thought was the best young point guard in the NBA. 11 of the 15 execs chose Luka as their 1st pick. 4 idiots chose Ja Morant. Nobody chose Trae Young, although a few idiots did pick Trae over Morant as their 2nd choice, and one imbecile had Morant with his 4th pick. Nobody had Luka lower than 2nd. As I stated earlier, he was the top choice and it wasn't close.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...floor-generals

This post is a new low, even for you. I'm not sure the reason for your obsession with me, but let's get a few things straight:

1. You are way out of line posting false claims about a Net54 member with whom you've never had any dealings, or even a single conversation outside of one basketball thread debate.

2. We were in fact both wrong about how GMs view Ja and Luka. What is the point of rehashing this month-old discussion?

3. On another thread, you claimed to have put me on your ignore list. I suggest you go back to that, as I have no interest in engaging with you in any way whatsoever.

Have a great night.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Well, shucks. It didn't take long for the data to come in on that prediction Bobby "I lied about my real name during registration and tried to scam someone in the B/S/T forums" Strawberry.

ESPN just conducted a survey with 15 of the league's execs to see who they thought was the best young point guard in the NBA. 11 of the 15 execs chose Luka as their 1st pick. Looks like I was wrong about saying they would "all" choose Luka, as 4 of the 15 chose Morant. Nobody chose Trae Young, although a few idiots did pick Trae over Morant as their 2nd choice, and one imbecile had Morant with his 4th pick. Nobody had Luka lower than 2nd. However, as I prophesied earlier, he was the top choice and no, it wasn't close.

As for your prediction that "Every GM in the league would take Morant over Luka given the choice."... ya, that one sorta fell flat.

11-4. You lose. I'm shocked.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...floor-generals

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

This post is a new low, even for you. I'm not sure the reason for your obsession with me, but let's get a few things straight:

1. You are way out of line posting false claims about a Net54 member with whom you've never had any dealings, or even a single conversation outside of one basketball thread debate.

2. We were in fact both wrong about how GMs view Ja and Luka. What is the point of rehashing this month-old discussion?

3. On another thread, you claimed to have put me on your ignore list. I suggest you go back to that, as I have no interest in engaging with you in any way whatsoever.

Have a great night.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Lol. It's time to use the "ignore" function on toxic, negative board members! (Not talking about you.)