New Ebay Authentication service

[whiteymet]

OK, so I buy a card on ebay. It is sent to their authenticator. They say it is good. I get the card, submit it to PSA and it comes back as fake. Then what?

[Exhibitman]

This is loony tunes on so many levels.

Three years ago a card over $750 would have gone to PSA and been back in 30-60-ish days, or SGC in even less. Selling it raw on eBay would have been a non-starter. With PSA effectively out of business selling expensive raw cards has become a real thing, I guess. And so many more cards are expensive now; lower grade T206 HOF portraits are going to four figures.

The USPS has been a shit show since that asswipe took it over. You really want to have an expensive card go through the USPS multiple times? How many orders are going to have to be undone when the USPS loses or wrecks the package? And who bears that risk? I have a sneaky suspicion it won't be eBay or the buyer. Can you say "mandatory shipping insurance, which eBay will gladly provide, for a fee"?



How on earth can CSG promise a quick turnaround on a card when it takes them 1-2 months to turn around a standard order? What will that do to the patient customers who are waiting for their cards now?

What is CSG going to do with the vast array of cards it does not grade? How will they authenticate a Babe Ruth Exhibit when they don't even grade them?

Last of all, this mandate with a limited time free means eventually it will be a cost someone eats. Probably the seller because that's what eBay always does. They are as bad as Lexis. Any time those pirates call my office to "work with you to lower your legal research bill" I know I will end up paying more.

The only people who will benefit from this are the auction houses. Every layer of complexity and expense that eBay layers on just pushes more business to the AHs. Selling a card already costs me 10% of the sale price plus 3% of the sum of the sale price, the shipping, and the tax (yeah, eBay charges a transaction fee on shipping and tax). A few more points and we are at auction house pricing, and I don't need to deal with the fulfillment headaches of cards I consign, just mail 'em in ad pick up the check.

Just don't know what else to say except...

[jayshum]

This listing has the Authenticity Guarantee indication. Odds it's authentic?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32500646135...YAAOSwwC9h6Nfu

[iwantitiwinit]

Buying puts on ebay today this bs they are pulling is out of control. What happens when you send the card in for authentication, it's authenticated then gets lost when shipped from the authentication point to the buyer. Who is responsible? Also, no way they keep up with volumes, no way.

[hcv123]

I do not think this is a money grab. As has been highlighted by all the "Ebay outed auctions" of clear fakes here on Net 54 - fakes have proliferated for years with likely unsuspecting buyers getting burned. An authentication process for higher value cards makes a lot of sense in instilling confidence for buyers that they are not getting burned with a fake card and are covered if they do.

Questions, as have been raised in this thread, will have to be answered in practice over time - 1) timing - I imagine would be exponentially faster to deem authenticity rather than grade - caveat - does the authenticity guarantee no alterations and what is considered an alteration?
2) cost - time will tell 3) Is CSG the right choice or the new kid on the block willing to work for Ebay's offer to try to gain some market recognition.

For now, I like the concept.

Edited to add:

In reading through the FAQ's - I see 1 potential red herring - part of the "authentication" - they are going to match the card to the condition description:

https://pages.ebay.com/cardconditions/

and if those condition definitions are from CSG, then I have a clearer picture of why I will not touch their cards with a 10 foot pole!

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I do not think this is a money grab. As has been highlighted by all the "Ebay outed auctions" of clear fakes here on Net 54 - fakes have proliferated for years with likely unsuspecting buyers getting burned. An authentication process for higher value cards makes a lot of sense in instilling confidence for buyers that they are not getting burned with a fake card and are covered if they do.

Questions, as have been raised in this thread, will have to be answered in practice over time - 1) timing - I imagine would be exponentially faster to deem authenticity rather than grade - caveat - does the authenticity guarantee no alterations and what is considered an alteration?
2) cost - time will tell 3) Is CSG the right choice or the new kid on the block willing to work for Ebay's offer to try to gain some market recognition.

For now, I like the concept.

Edited to add:

In reading through the FAQ's - I see 1 potential red herring - part of the "authentication" - they are going to match the card to the condition description:

https://pages.ebay.com/cardconditions/

and if those condition definitions are from CSG, then I have a clearer picture of why I will not touch their cards with a 10 foot pole!

Well said Howard.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Originally Posted by jayshum

This listing has the Authenticity Guarantee indication. Odds it's authentic?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32500646135...YAAOSwwC9h6Nfu

Oh boy, interesting find Jay. That seller has few other dubious looking listings as well (a couple 52 bowman mantles, and a "graded" 52 Topps Mays from a unknown grading company).

They have all fake warning signs...even corner rounding, artificial aging, a little crackle effect, and just something that looks a little "off" about them in general.

I'd love to see a follow-up on what the eBay authenticators rule when these cards arrive for authentication.

[Exhibitman]

If you haven't already, go to the link of the Paige and click on the Learn More link in the box describing the service. You can see what they are going for: a bypass entirely of the slabbing regime. The card comes back in a Card Saver with a sticker (like what Beckett used to do (does?)) with its QR code and in a cardboard display easel you can fold out and put on a desk. Looks tailor made for the newbie and casual collector who is the most likely victim of a fake card scam and who doesn't really know or want to have his nephew's Bar Mitzvah present graded and encapsulated.

My guess is that from eBay's perspective, paying the cost for CSG to look at the card and slap a sticker on it or reject it is more cost-effective than paying off burned collectors and trying to get repayment from scammers for all of the high-dollar fakes out there.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by jayshum

This listing has the Authenticity Guarantee indication. Odds it's authentic?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32500646135...YAAOSwwC9h6Nfu

Currently with 63 bids - with they authenticate the shill bids as well?


Just wondering.

[conor912]

Getting in bed with a company like ebay is a major boon for a company like CSG. My guess is ebay cards will be expedited through their system while their normal subs get shoved aside. I wouldn’t be surprised if eBay is interested in an in-house grading sercice and they looking at purchase opportunities.

[lowpopper]

3 of these in the mail already. Hope it works out for the better

[Republicaninmass]

Worst shipping ever. Coincidence? Still says in route to authenticator.



May 5, 2022
11:15am
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
YBOR CITY FL DISTRIBUTION CENTE, 33605
May 5, 2022
11:12am
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
YBOR CITY FL DISTRIBUTION CENTE, 33605
May 5, 2022
12:01am
ARRIVED AT USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
YBOR CITY FL DISTRIBUTION CENTE, 33605
May 4, 2022
10:18pm
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
SEMINOLE-ORLANDO FL DISTRIBUTIO, 32824
May 4, 2022
10:08pm
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
SEMINOLE-ORLANDO FL DISTRIBUTIO, 32824
May 4, 2022
8:04pm
ARRIVE USPS FACILITY
SEMINOLE-ORLANDO FL DISTRIBUTIO, 32824
May 4, 2022
7:46pm
ARRIVED AT USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
SEMINOLE-ORLANDO FL DISTRIBUTIO, 32824
May 4, 2022
8:06am
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
MONTGOMERY AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 36119
May 4, 2022
8:01am
ARRIVED AT USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
MONTGOMERY AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 36119
May 4, 2022
6:16am
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35203
May 4, 2022
6:09am
ARRIVED AT USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35203
May 4, 2022
5:55am
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35222
May 4, 2022
5:36am
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35222
May 3, 2022
4:26pm
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35222
May 3, 2022
11:45am
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35222
Apr 26, 2022
3:38pm
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
LITTLE ROCK AR PACKAGE SORTING, 72115
Apr 25, 2022
7:42pm
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
LITTLE ROCK AR PACKAGE SORTING, 72115
Apr 25, 2022
5:48pm
DEPART POST OFFICE
SHERWOOD, AR 72120
Apr 25, 2022
3:34pm
USPS in possession of item
SHERWOOD, AR 72120
Apr 25, 2022
1:36pm
SHIPPING LBL CREATED USPS AWAITS ITEM
SHERWOOD, AR 72120
Apr 25, 2022
11:36am
Tracking number provided
--
T

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Worst shipping ever. Coincidence? Still says in route to authenticator.



May 5, 2022
11:15am
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
YBOR CITY FL DISTRIBUTION CENTE, 33605
May 5, 2022
11:12am
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
YBOR CITY FL DISTRIBUTION CENTE, 33605
May 5, 2022
12:01am
ARRIVED AT USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
YBOR CITY FL DISTRIBUTION CENTE, 33605
May 4, 2022
10:18pm
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
SEMINOLE-ORLANDO FL DISTRIBUTIO, 32824
May 4, 2022
10:08pm
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
SEMINOLE-ORLANDO FL DISTRIBUTIO, 32824
May 4, 2022
8:04pm
ARRIVE USPS FACILITY
SEMINOLE-ORLANDO FL DISTRIBUTIO, 32824
May 4, 2022
7:46pm
ARRIVED AT USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
SEMINOLE-ORLANDO FL DISTRIBUTIO, 32824
May 4, 2022
8:06am
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
MONTGOMERY AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 36119
May 4, 2022
8:01am
ARRIVED AT USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
MONTGOMERY AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 36119
May 4, 2022
6:16am
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35203
May 4, 2022
6:09am
ARRIVED AT USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35203
May 4, 2022
5:55am
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35222
May 4, 2022
5:36am
DEPARTED USPS REGIONAL FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35222
May 3, 2022
4:26pm
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35222
May 3, 2022
11:45am
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
BIRMINGHAM AL DISTRIBUTION CENT, 35222
Apr 26, 2022
3:38pm
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
LITTLE ROCK AR PACKAGE SORTING, 72115
Apr 25, 2022
7:42pm
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
LITTLE ROCK AR PACKAGE SORTING, 72115
Apr 25, 2022
5:48pm
DEPART POST OFFICE
SHERWOOD, AR 72120
Apr 25, 2022
3:34pm
USPS in possession of item
SHERWOOD, AR 72120
Apr 25, 2022
1:36pm
SHIPPING LBL CREATED USPS AWAITS ITEM
SHERWOOD, AR 72120
Apr 25, 2022
11:36am
Tracking number provided
--
T

At least it's in the right state now. Hopefully it should be at the authenticator soon.

Hopefully it doesn't go the same route from there to you.

I clench my cheeks a little harder any time I have to rely on somebody else shipping out a product I had to ship to them first, before THEY ship it on to where I originally intended for it to go.

On a lot of International packages I'm now forced to ship to a clearinghouse for them to put the final label and paperwork on before it goes on it's way. Whether it's through Ebay...or even Stamps.com.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

OK, so I buy a card on ebay. It is sent to their authenticator. They say it is good. I get the card, submit it to PSA and it comes back as fake. Then what?

you make a case with your credit card company or pay pal or both. It's a cluster F.

How about the 95% listed Fake Mantle Autographs going there for authentication?

[steve B]

"In the unlikely event that your card is damaged in transit, you can still open a return request within the seller’s return window and get a refund, or within three days if the item is final sale."

So if the third party screws up the packaging or something else goes wrong....
It's on you.

No thanks!

[D. Bergin]

Damn, I can see a lot of "Card Not Received" claims coming in, the second the authenticater gets backed up in submissions.

I don't see anything good coming out of this, and likely will lead to even higher seller fees, so Ebay can recoup their share of this scheme......+ a little off the top.

[Snowman]

While I'm not excited about this for my own purchases (I don't need help with identifying fakes), I do understand the Haider market need for such a service. There are a lot of fakes out there, and it's only going to get worse. And eBay has zero ability to make fair rulings on these transactions when buyers file a complaint. They really do need an expert 3rd party to partner with. But this is going to be a big hassle for modern collectors. I buy a fair number of raw ultra modern NBA cards that are over $750. Cards that are not faked as they are new releases. That would be pretty annoying if they plan to "authenticate" new release cards.

As far as CSG goes, I think it makes sense that they partnered with them. The hobby might not like their slabs, but they're definitely capable and are well funded and backed by the same owners as Fanatics. And given all the ambitions of Fanatics, I would expect to see them integrate CSG grading services through multiple different channels.

[Flintboy]

What kind of headache does this cause the breakers like Greg Morris and the likes?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

What kind of headache does this cause the breakers like Greg Morris and the likes?

By "breakers", I take it you mean set breakers like Greg Morris on ebay as opposed to box and case breakers? I doubt it would have much of an effect on them. Instead of shipping to address A, they're now just shipping to address B instead.

It may have an effect on the broader market prices though in general, as this will undoubtedly turn both buyers and sellers off on eBay. People will be seeking out alternative selling platforms. There's a lot of opportunity for new players to come along in this market right now. I'm excited for what lies ahead. I'm envisioning entirely new platforms and resources for buying, selling, storing, grading, trading, organizing, tracking, etc. Will be interesting to see it all unfold. I'm also interested in how market prices will be affected as more and more transactions migrate away from eBay. Right now, eBay is pretty much THE comp tool which effectively dictates current market prices (with some exceptions for high end vintage or super low pop cards). But price suppression could result if eBay ever starts losing significant volume to other platforms. Especially if there are a plethora of other platforms to choose from, each of which has their own niche following (and therefore fewer eyes on each listing on average). Fewer eyes = lower selling prices. So even if the same number of cards are sold per year in this hobby, the average selling price will go down in proportion to the number of different selling platforms there are that gain significant traction in the market.

[Snowman]

Ultimately, this service will be paid for by the buyers and sellers. Buyers might be willing to pay more for a card that otherwise looks questionable because they won't have to risk whether it's fake or not. In those cases, the expense will ultimately be covered by the buyer being willing to pay more for the card, and thus for the service. However, for cards where it's pretty obvious that it's not a fake, and where buyers aren't really all that interested in getting it authenticated, then it'll be the sellers who end up eating the costs as the buyers won't be willing to pay more for it. And while ebay claims it is a "free service" for now, we all know that's bullshit. Someone had to pay for it, and it's not going to be ebay. Whether that comes through in the form of higher selling fees or an actual itemized separate line item fee is yet to be seen, but sellers will definitely be the ones who get stuck with the bill.