Santa, I would like a Herman Germany Schaefer autograph for Christmas

[J-Yo]

Saw one sold on Ebay for $700+ today


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[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I would certainly like to know if there was any additional information given to Beckett which gave them the confidence to authenticate that Schaefer. As a standalone cut signature coupled with what little exists to compare it to, I would never have been able to authenticate that.

Granted, there are precious few authentic examples known in the hobby, but I don't recall a single one that was signed "Germany". For the most part, none resemble this handwriting, either. There are a couple of letters contained within the signature that do bear a resemblance to two letters found in exactly one of the authentic exemplars. That would be far too little for me to give the go-ahead on. (Before anyone asks, I don't wish to post my Germany Schaefer exemplars to prove my point, nor will they be shared privately. If this is of interest, people can do a little auction archive digging, etc. to generate some examples to look at.). Due to the factors mentioned, I'd be inconclusive at best. That might be rather charitable of me, but it's the right place to be.

[HexsHeroes]

I remember when this same item appeared on eBay years ago, and I passed on it then. And this time around, I passed on it again for some of the reasons Jodi mentioned. Mainly, being a closely cropped cut, and signed as “Germany”. The lack of early interest by other experienced bidders was also noted. Even though I need for my vintage Detroit Tigers autograph collection, this specimen concerned me enough to pass on this opportunity. Hopefully it will pan out for the winning bidder.

[milkit1]

I avoided this as well. I have 4 examples of his autograph and not only did he not sign it "Germany" bit the Schaefer didn't match at all. Also I wanted the Candy Lachance until I realized it looked off as well and the paper looked very close to the Schaefer. This is the same seller that had closely cropped Sherry Magee and a Jake Stahl that seemed off as well. I don't think the seller is intentionally selling fakes but I do believe these closely cropped sigs are fake

[ss]

I agree, the Schaefer was ridiculous. But I thought the LaChance was spot on. Most of this seller’s items are fine, but some - Magee, Daubert, Seymour, Schaefer were not authentic.

[milkit1]

With the LaChance what concerned me the most is it seems like it's on the same paper as the Schaefer. That could with the Schaefer being most likely bad I passed on the LaChance. Too bad I'd have really liked to have a genuine auto of either of them.

[ss]

I didn’t notice that. But the Daubert and Magee were on the same paper as well. Good catch!

[MikeMc]

Tragically was out-bid in that Ebay auction. Would have been the jewel of my Germany Schaefer collection. Though the insights in this thread have made me feel better that I wouldn't have had the full confidence I'd hope for that it was authentic.

[HexsHeroes]

MikeMc,

I would be interested in reading your story on how/why you collect Germany Schaefer ?

Care to share ?

[HexsHeroes]

FYI

Below is a black & white photocopy image of a "Germany" Schaefer signed cut on 3x5 (with attached T207 card) advertised in September 2000 (that Paul/T206Collector referred to),
and snip of the recently sold eBay "Germany" Schaefer signed cut on 3x5 semi-imposed below it for comparison purposes . . .

.

[ss]

Originally Posted by HexsHeroes

FYI

Below is a black & white photocopy image of a "Germany" Schaefer signed cut on 3x5 (with attached T207 card) advertised in September 2000 (that Paul/T206Collector referred to),
and snip of the recently sold eBay "Germany" Schaefer signed cut on 3x5 semi-imposed below it for comparison purposes . . .

.

Well that’s interesting and does change things a bit.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by ss

Well that’s interesting and does change things a bit.

Maybe, and maybe not.

It does likely answer the question as to the exemplar (or "exemplar") used to authenticate the piece in question. I still remain unconvinced that either can be definitively authenticated as compared to the rest of the exemplars of which I am aware. The majority of these date from the Tour and are also signed by others who took part in this moment in baseball history. They're all in period ink, and the other MLB player autographs on these items appear free from issue from my recollection. These Schaefer autographs all bear resemblance to one another, whereas the two in question are outsiders, if you will. Finding a matching example to the cut which recently sold does nothing to sway my initial position as detailed in an earlier post. Unlike the multi-signed Tour pieces mentioned, these two are tiny, standalone cuts with no known back story to serve as provenance. They were clearly written a long time ago, so any nefarious intent can certainly be ruled out.

My hypothesis at this point is this: They may not be secretarial/clubhouse, but perhaps a case of someone identifying something to do with Schaefer a long time ago. At some point, these writings may have been innocently confused by a family member for the real thing when a pioneering collector wrote to them and asked if they had an autograph to spare. These pieces were accepted by the collector as genuine and remained in various collections over the decades. We've seen this happen more than once with other players.

While it would be incredibly beneficial if we had documents signed by Schaefer, I don't ever recall seeing anything of the sort. Has anyone else? Hopefully, something will be unearthed some day. I've been searching for a very long time. I don't seem to have a copy of his WWI draft registration card on file. Although it's been many years since I scoured that resource to seek every player exemplar I could find, I have a vague recollection that I did find the Schaefer card and it was unsigned--likely due to his being a patient at the time. Maybe someone else might confirm, as I'm only going by an aging memory.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

My hypothesis at this point is this: They may not be secretarial/clubhouse, but perhaps a case of someone identifying something to do with Schaefer a long time ago. At some point, these writings may have been innocently confused by a family member for the real thing when a pioneering collector wrote to them and asked if they had an autograph to spare. These pieces were accepted by the collector as genuine and remained in various collections over the decades. We've seen this happen more than once with other players.

I certainly have seen that phenomenon a couple of times over the past 14 months or so that I have been researching T206 player autographs.

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

I don't seem to have a copy of his WWI draft registration card on file. Although it's been many years since I scoured that resource to seek every player exemplar I could find, I have a vague recollection that I did find the Schaefer card and it was unsigned--likely due to his being a patient at the time. Maybe someone else might confirm, as I'm only going by an aging memory.

I do not have his WWI draft card in my exemplars, but I may have not dug particularly deep because I had another one. I'll look again...

[MikeMc]

Originally Posted by HexsHeroes

MikeMc,

I would be interested in reading your story on how/why you collect Germany Schaefer ?

Care to share ?

It's because of all the stories about Germany Schaefer in "Glory of Their Times". I read that book when I was only 12 and it locked in a love of all things old-time baseball. Schaefer was such an amazing character from that era, and collecting his cards was a way to tap into that era. But since he's not a HOFer whose cards are particularly valuable - it's about luck in finding the cards - as opposed to spending an awful lot of money on each one.