Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Roger Clemens don’t have the integrity, sportsmanship or

[egri]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I think it is so sweet when people think their favorite player didn't cheat or only took caffeine(LOL) pills.

Or when they decide steroids are a no-no, but amphetamines, sheep testosterone and who knows what else are A-OK.

[ClementeFanOh]

To Egri- I suppose I am one of the "they" you mention, who have "randomly" decided
that amphetamines , sheep testosterone, and apparently animal sacrifice (since you
included "whatever else" as a possible enhancer) to get more hits, are somehow the
same as PROVEN PED abuse...

The problem with the "____" 50s superstar took stimulants" argument is that it is
based on anecdotal or 2nd hand (or worse) memory/speculation/rumor. Was it even
against MLB policy back then? (Serious question, I'm not privy to policy from 60+
years ago). The PED stuff, however, is NOT. It is within our memories and a matter of
formalized MLB conclusion. We all watched Bonds' head grow larger and Sammy Sosa's
bat give birth to cork- after his body shape changed completely. It's not rumor or 60
year old folk tale- it's provable and most certainly against MLB policy, which EVERY ONE
of those guys knew...

So, the extent to which permissive people like you will do all you can to justify the
PED crowd- "everyone was doing it so it's okay", or "I heard from my uncle's best
friend that ____ used to sniff jet fuel before games in 1960" is actually the amusing
thing here. You keep on justifying and speculating, have at it- the PED crowd actually
did what they have been accused of doing. Good luck with that argument! Trent King

[egri]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

To Egri- I suppose I am one of the "they" you mention, who have "randomly" decided
that amphetamines , sheep testosterone, and apparently animal sacrifice (since you
included "whatever else" as a possible enhancer) to get more hits, are somehow the
same as PROVEN PED abuse...

The problem with the "____" 50s superstar took stimulants" argument is that it is
based on anecdotal or 2nd hand (or worse) memory/speculation/rumor. Was it even
against MLB policy back then? (Serious question, I'm not privy to policy from 60+
years ago). The PED stuff, however, is NOT. It is within our memories and a matter of
formalized MLB conclusion. We all watched Bonds' head grow larger and Sammy Sosa's
bat give birth to cork- after his body shape changed completely. It's not rumor or 60
year old folk tale- it's provable and most certainly against MLB policy, which EVERY ONE
of those guys knew...

So, the extent to which permissive people like you will do all you can to justify the
PED crowd- "everyone was doing it so it's okay", or "I heard from my uncle's best
friend that ____ used to sniff jet fuel before games in 1960" is actually the amusing
thing here. You keep on justifying and speculating, have at it- the PED crowd actually
did what they have been accused of doing. Good luck with that argument! Trent King

I’m going to ignore your ridiculous ad hominem and straw man arguments, and just observe that Hank Aaron admitted to taking amphetamines in his autobiography. That’s not “ I heard from my uncle's best friend that ____ used to sniff jet fuel before games in 1960" or “anecdotal or 2nd hand (or worse) memory/speculation/rumor“; that’s straight from the man himself. As for MLB policy, the federal government had made amphetamines illegal without a prescription in the early 1960s; Aaron’s use occurred in 1968. When the feds say it’s illegal, MLB policy goes out the window.

[Republicaninmass]

I still dont see Ortiz mentioned in the mitchell report. This was just more n54 idiots allowing their own narrative to change the data.

"Manfred deferred to Hall of Fame voters to make judgments on Ortiz's career. But he did note that Ortiz "has never been a positive at any point under our program." MLB's drug-testing program was implemented in 2004."

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I still dont see Ortiz mentioned in the mitchell report. This was just more n54 idiots allowing their own narrative to change the data.

"Manfred deferred to Hall of Fame voters to make judgments on Ortiz's career. But he did note that Ortiz "has never been a positive at any point under our program." MLB's drug-testing program was implemented in 2004."

Do you think David Ortiz was PED free or just calling out one guy that messed up on him being in the Mitchell report?

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I still dont see Ortiz mentioned in the mitchell report. This was just more n54 idiots allowing their own narrative to change the data.

"Manfred deferred to Hall of Fame voters to make judgments on Ortiz's career. But he did note that Ortiz "has never been a positive at any point under our program." MLB's drug-testing program was implemented in 2004."

I read the story saying Ortiz name was on the list, why shouldn't I have believed it? Because Ortiz said it wasn't true? The same story named Manny Ramirez and they were right about him. I assume you never believe any news stories with anonymous sources?

I don't understand why you have to make it personal by calling people names?

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Jim65

I read the story saying Ortiz name was on the list, why shouldn't I have believed it? Because Ortiz said it wasn't true? The same story named Manny Ramirez and they were right about him. I assume you never believe any news stories with anonymous sources?



I don't understand why you have to make it personal by calling people names?

From what I see, He is not in the mitchell report try reading it your dam self. You lied, or you just have no reading comprehension. Maybe you saw it on facebook?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

From what I see, He is not in the mitchell report try reading it your dam self. You lied, or you just have no reading comprehension. Maybe you saw it on facebook?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I told you where the story came from, I didn't pull it out of my ass, dickhead.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I still dont see Ortiz mentioned in the mitchell report. This was just more n54 idiots allowing their own narrative to change the data.

"Manfred deferred to Hall of Fame voters to make judgments on Ortiz's career. But he did note that Ortiz "has never been a positive at any point under our program." MLB's drug-testing program was implemented in 2004."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...fame/91442256/

Hard to keep the story straight, did he test positive but it might have been a false positive, or did he not test positive at all? In any case, he is clearly going into the Hall and a great player and fan favorite.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I still dont see Ortiz mentioned in the mitchell report. This was just more n54 idiots allowing their own narrative to change the data.

"Manfred deferred to Hall of Fame voters to make judgments on Ortiz's career. But he did note that Ortiz "has never been a positive at any point under our program." MLB's drug-testing program was implemented in 2004."

After reading some more, there was an agreement that any test results were to remain confidential, so you are correct, Ortiz was not named in the Mitchell Report. Some of the positive results were leaked to the NYT, thats where Ortiz name comes up. The same article also names Manny Ramirez, so the article does appear to have some validity.

Nothing you said here disputes that Ortiz might have failed the 2003 test and, sorry I don't put any weight in Manfred's quote.

[egri]

I'm skeptical about Ortiz using for a few reasons. First, as others have mentioned, the test itself was suspect. Then throughout his career, he had a dad bod. You're telling me that the same drug that made Bonds, Sosa, and Mcgwire go from looking like twigs to jacked, when Ortiz took it, turned him into the Pillsbury doughboy instead? If steroids caused him to gain fat as he aged, then practically every male between the ages of 22-40 must be juicing too, as most of them similarly gained body fat (guilty as charged). And around the same time he was having some of his best seasons, A-Rod was getting caught a second time. The same testing regimen that nabbed him also would've caught Ortiz, but didn't.

If it comes out from a reliable source, not a test that had all sorts of issues and was supposed to remain private anyways, that he was juicing, I'll eat my words, but for now, I don't see it.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by egri

I'm skeptical about Ortiz using for a few reasons. First, as others have mentioned, the test itself was suspect. Then throughout his career, he had a dad bod. You're telling me that the same drug that made Bonds, Sosa, and Mcgwire go from looking like twigs to jacked, when Ortiz took it, turned him into the Pillsbury doughboy instead? If steroids caused him to gain fat as he aged, then practically every male between the ages of 22-40 must be juicing too, as most of them similarly gained body fat (guilty as charged). And around the same time he was having some of his best seasons, A-Rod was getting caught a second time. The same testing regimen that nabbed him also would've caught Ortiz, but didn't.

If it comes out from a reliable source, not a test that had all sorts of issues and was supposed to remain private anyways, that he was juicing, I'll eat my words, but for now, I don't see it.

Feel free to correct me but ARods 2nd suspension was from the Biogenesis scandal, not a failed drug test.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by egri

I'm skeptical about Ortiz using for a few reasons. First, as others have mentioned, the test itself was suspect. Then throughout his career, he had a dad bod. You're telling me that the same drug that made Bonds, Sosa, and Mcgwire go from looking like twigs to jacked, when Ortiz took it, turned him into the Pillsbury doughboy instead? If steroids caused him to gain fat as he aged, then practically every male between the ages of 22-40 must be juicing too, as most of them similarly gained body fat (guilty as charged).

Speaking of dad bod ... Bartolo Colon tested positive for PEDs in 2012 and served a 50 game suspension.