OT:Auction sales hit record $15 billion as young, wealthy collectors enter the market

[LEHR]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm with you. I'd happily welcome all cards permanently costing a small fraction of what they do today; I'd love them just as much, and be able to own and enjoy more.

I'm not drawn to a card because of its potential future value— yet that is the primary reason behind most card purchases I see today on social media (which is admittedly societal poison), especially outside the very collector-centric cyber halls of Net54.

What I find sadly amusing is that we see guys on social media trumpeting high prices, but if you love cards and collecting, the value of cards you love and never want to sell is totally moot. That's money a collector never wants to see, because he never wants to sell. So the high prices only have one actual effect in reality on a collector, namely we have to shell out way more cash to acquire anything new. Or we have to sell pieces when we add a new one. So I don't see how rising prices are good for a collector who is not obscenely wealthy. Now if someone is super wealthy, of course it's to their advantage that everything desirable rises to a level where only they can afford it. To them the cash is nothing and they can just scoop everything up.

We all collect and see things differently. At 48 I've been collecting for four decades now. As much as I love the history and the cards/memorabilia of this hobby, I also personally look at anything that I put thousands and thousands of dollars into as an investment. I'm also in the camp that everything I own has a price; because in the end it's all just "stuff', as much as I love it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Go back a few years and read all the alarmist posts about how the hobby was likely to decline for failure to attract younger collectors. Maybe this is not such a bad thing.

[MattyC]

I think it is a terrible thing. My opinion, what the hell do we care if our stuff is worth money to our heirs after we croak? What matters is the fun we have while we're alive. A decline in the hobby would make us have more money and more cards.

Also, the prices nowadays force many of us to have to think about our cards as investments. I just wish I didn't have to view the things I like through that prism.

[nat]

I see baseball cards as a device for turning money into fun. I want low prices, not high ones.

[parkplace33]

“Driving all the growth — from fine art masterpieces to collectible sneakers — was a new generation of collectors who had never before been clients of the big auction houses. Sotheby’s said 44% of its bidders this year were new to the auction house, while half of the buyers at Phillips were first-timers. At Christie’s, 35% of all buyers were new, with two-thirds entering through online sales. A third of their new buyers were millennials.”

This is the big piece from the article. The amount of new buyers and money coming into the hobby is tremendous. I love cards, but I am aware that big cards going for big money is part of the way forward. There is no going back.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I think it is a terrible thing. My opinion, what the hell do we care if our stuff is worth money to our heirs after we croak? What matters is the fun we have while we're alive. A decline in the hobby would make us have more money and more cards.

Also, the prices nowadays force many of us to have to think about our cards as investments. I just wish I didn't have to view the things I like through that prism.

I am with you. I don't think all of the recent money into the business has been particularly good. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Change in the hobby is great. Just not sure, at this point, if we are headed in the right direction entirely and if not then things will adjust.

[ALBB]

Love it - Young and wealthy collectors !

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I think it is a terrible thing. My opinion, what the hell do we care if our stuff is worth money to our heirs after we croak? What matters is the fun we have while we're alive. A decline in the hobby would make us have more money and more cards.

Also, the prices nowadays force many of us to have to think about our cards as investments. I just wish I didn't have to view the things I like through that prism.

Some people actually care about the estate that they'll pass on to their heirs. And you act like a hobby crash doesn't have any negative effects. Very bad for dealers, and some implications for collectors as well.

Also....what a horrible thing when someone's cards have worth enough to be a material part of their assets. Such psychological torment is just unbearable.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Some people actually care about the estate that they'll pass on to their heirs. And you act like a hobby crash doesn't have any negative effects. Very bad for dealers, and some implications for collectors as well.

Also....what a horrible thing when someone's cards have worth enough to be a material part of their assets. Such psychological torment is just unbearable.

I can care about my estate and my heirs, and not want or need my estate to include baseball cards. I’d also like my heirs to be self sufficient and able to provide a great life for themselves. Every dollar I’ve spent in life is a dollar I earned. I value self sufficiency and the ability to earn over inheriting money. The fact is that while higher prices mean my cards are now part of my assets, the flipside to that— which I personally find outweighs that new asset— is that higher prices mean less money in collector pockets and fewer cards in collections. As a passionate collector, I will always root for lower prices. That said, it doesn’t seem anything can slow down the competition and resultant prices; the music has stopped, so to speak, and the chairs many of us have are our collections as they now stand. New acquisitions are going to be ever pricier and thus fewer and farther between.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I can care about my estate and my heirs, and not want or need my estate to include baseball cards. I’d also like my heirs to be self sufficient and able to provide a great life for themselves. Every dollar I’ve spent in life is a dollar I earned. I value self sufficiency and the ability to earn over inheriting money. The fact is that while higher prices mean my cards are now part of my assets, the flipside to that— which I personally find outweighs that new asset— is that higher prices mean less money in collector pockets and fewer cards in collections. As a passionate collector, I will always root for lower prices. That said, it doesn’t seem anything can slow down the competition and resultant prices; the music has stopped, so to speak, and the chairs many of us have are our collections as they now stand. New acquisitions are going to be ever pricier and thus fewer and farther between.

Yes but when you bought your 52T Mantle if I recall the approximate price range, it was probably 10 times more than it would have been a decade before (or if not that certainly a significant multiple), and many people back then likely had the very same complaint about being priced out of the market for the elite cards. This is just how many markets behave over time.

[MattyC]

Can’t argue with that, Pete. It all stems from what prices we’ve seen in the past. Those just entering the hobby now don’t have the sting of knowing what was LOL.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Go back a few years and read all the alarmist posts about how the hobby was likely to decline for failure to attract younger collectors. Maybe this is not such a bad thing.

Pete,

Attracting the younger crowd for possibly all the wrong reasons is no way a good thing for infusing the hobby with new blood.

Maybe it is a generational thing too. We got in this hobby to collect, they are getting into this hobby to invest. And that is a sad commentary actually for getting new people involved in a collector hobby.

Such is life I suppose.......

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

Pete,

Attracting the younger crowd for possibly all the wrong reasons is no way a good thing for infusing the hobby with new blood.

Maybe it is a generational thing too. We got in this hobby to collect, they are getting into this hobby to invest. And that is a sad commentary actually for getting new people involved in a collector hobby.

Such is life I suppose.......

Maybe I've lost my purity, but I would much prefer my cards to hold their value or appreciate than for them to decline with a dying hobby.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

Pete,

Attracting the younger crowd for possibly all the wrong reasons is no way a good thing for infusing the hobby with new blood.

Maybe it is a generational thing too. We got in this hobby to collect, they are getting into this hobby to invest. And that is a sad commentary actually for getting new people involved in a collector hobby.

Such is life I suppose.......

The younger crowd seems to be a little more focused on modern rather than vintage. The monumental increase in prices in vintage though are definitely not going unnoticed.

I do think there are plenty of younger people, like myself, who are strictly in this for Hobby Purposes. I do not know how long the current boom is sustainable for. I do think the impending lockout could shift the tide again on the hobby, especially if it dips into the regular season. Players and Owners are so far apart at the moment.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Seven

The younger crowd seems to be a little more focused on modern rather than vintage. The monumental increase in prices in vintage though are definitely not going unnoticed.

I do think there are plenty of younger people, like myself, who are strictly in this for Hobby Purposes. I do not know how long the current boom is sustainable for. I do think the impending lockout could shift the tide again on the hobby, especially if it dips into the regular season. Players and Owners are so far apart at the moment.

James,

That makes sense. I got into the hobby for the modern collecting. Let's just overlook the part about 1967 being modern for now. ;-)


But there was never a hook for a quick buck either. Actually there was but it was on the front end trying to get money from my parents so I can run to the local store and buy more cards. No consideration ever for selling anything, just trading to get sets complete. That seems to be a lost art in many ways.

Net54 not withstanding as I do see that happen here and have been a part of that aspect too. Always nice to see someone complete a set, and even more fun helping someone reach that goal too.

I am happy to have your interest in the hobby it is fun and as you can see addicting vice. There are worse things.....

Cheers,

B. T.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by LEHR

...I'm also in the camp that everything I own has a price...

Wasn't Harry Frazee known for saying that?

[Eric72]

Speaking of Frazee...