t205 vs t206...Which Do You Like Best?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by G1911

Some of the T220’s list annual statistics, chronologically by year. You said all sports, thus the relative unpopularity of boxing seems to have nothing to do with what was originally posited. Besides baseball, different sports were popular a century ago.

If it’s about modern inspiration, that probably has nothing to do with T205’s whatsoever either. That probably goes back to 1952 Topps at the earliest. Most modern designs are not copying old styles at all anyways, but drawing on recent designs, except for the copy/paste heritage type sets. T205’s are not the model for 2021 Topps backs.

If asking others for input on questions of firsts is a problem, because a set might not be known by all, well, okay! There’s little point in anyone ever discussing anything at all by that logic.

I never expected or anticipated someone to try and bring up boxing, golf cards, or the like because those are not comparable to sports where you have seasons and stats shown as on the backs of cards like the T205s, and how similar they are to modern cards for baseball and other major team sports. I should know there are always going to be some who twist things for their own purposes or meanings so as to criticize others. Boxing's popularity now or then has nothing to do with this as listing the results of several fights is totally different than listing a player's annual stats in a season by season format, as shown on the T205 cards, which is what I was referring to. I don't think I've ever seen a modern baseball card issue that shows how all the players did game by game, which is what these boxing card stats you referenced do, show how the fighter performed event by event. Which as far as I'm concerned shows you either don't understand my point at all, or are just possibly trying to be a troll?

To me the idea that the T205 cards were the first ever to be like how they show bio info and annual statistics on cards today was one of the things that attracted me to them. Were they the true inspiration for how modern cards display a player's annual stats, maybe, maybe not, who really knows for sure? You citing 1952 Topps as the inspiration for modern cards is not accurate. I think of 1952 Topps as the start of modern cards, whose design may have been inspired by things like what was shown on T205 cards. That was the reference I was making and referring to. You want to call me out on what your differing thoughts and opinions are on what constitutes the way modern cards are described, go right ahead. It certainly doesn't make you right or me wrong. I can't, nor would I ever try to, prove that the way season stats were portrayed on the backs of T205 cards was the true inspiration for how they ended up being shown on '52 Topps cards, but you can't prove to me they weren't either. And since I'm not aware of an earlier set that ever showed seasonal player stats prior to how it was shown on the T205s, the T205s could have very well been an influence or even indirect inspiration to the '52 Topps production after all. I'm assuming that whenever people designing sports cards go to produce them that they often study and examine previous major card issues of others to possibly glean ideas and insights for their own new card issue (like listing player stats season by season), and to not erroneously copy other designs without full knowledge and intent in doing so. And as for asking others for information on earlier examples of sets, quit trying to be snarky by somehow inferring that I'm then making that out to be problem, which is exactly what you're trying to do. You are, or at least should be, better than that. I am pretty familiar with all the main baseball sets listed in the old SCD catalogs over the years, and am fairly confident that there isn't going to be any earlier baseball card issues that show individual player season's stats like they do on the T205s, along with player bios. But I also know that I clearly don't know everything (and in fact know very little), and am well aware there could be some weird, obscure, or only recently discovered set out there I've never heard of before that does have some similar seasonal player stats and bios on the back. But if there is, I think it fair to speculate that it is so rare and obscure, or possibly even unknown at the time, that the people designing the '52 Topps set (Sy Berger right?) wouldn't have been aware of and/or used it for potential design and layout ideas like they would have with a much more well known and popular set like the T205s. It is no problem, just something that makes logical common sense if some weird and obscure earlier issue does in fact exist, and contrary to what you're trying to say by twisting my words and meanings into what I never intended.

[Rhotchkiss]

T205's are very pretty indeed. Great looking cards. But T206 is the Granddaddy of all sets. It is the Monster. Its has the Wagner. It has the backs and well over 5000+ combinations. In my opinion, nothing, and I mean NO sports cards set, beats T206. And these guys all agree!

[skelly423]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

T205's are very pretty indeed. Great looking cards. But T206 is the Granddaddy of all sets. It is the Monster. Its has the Wagner. It has the backs and well over 5000+ combinations. In my opinion, nothing, and I mean NO sports cards set, beats T206. And these guys all agree!

Nothing like bringing the nuclear weapons to a knife fight. What a collection you’ve got

[JimC]

Originally Posted by skelly423

Nothing like bringing the nuclear weapons to a knife fight. What a collection you’ve got

Right??

[GasHouseGang]

But the T206's containing "nuclear weapons" is why I prefer the T205's. For years the T205's have been more affordable. There have always been some of the highest, if not THE highest priced cards in the hobby in the T206 set. You might actually be able to complete the T205 set without needing to mortgage your house or be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company.

[Vintagecatcher]

It's pretty much a toss up for me. Like the 1911 Obaks and T207s better than both the T205s and T206.

Patrick

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by skelly423

Nothing like bringing the nuclear weapons to a knife fight. What a collection you’ve got

Lol, thanks. But David makes a good point too. Both sets are pretty awesome.

[BCauley]

I don't think I can really decide between the two. Probably depends more on the day/week/month and how I'm feeling at any given time. Hell, I went through a stretch where I liked the T207s more than the other two. As much as the T206 portraits are my favorite niche out of tobacco cards, I'd take the T205 Mathewson over his portrait any time as I just like the look of it a lot more.

[t206blogcom]

I have to go with T206s; been a fan since I was kid. There's something about their simplicity, the white borders, the beautiful backgrounds that draw me in. I tried to get into T205s, but they didn't do anything for me. The design is too busy for me.

[Exhibitman]

I'm a T206 portrait fan. I prefer the simple, clean design with many classic Horner portraits turned into those very detailed images. T205 loses me because the portraits are not as detailed and for its approach to each league. The cards from the AL, NL and ML all look like they are from different sets. I also find the color borders distracting. My preference over T207 would be the end panels from T202s (which i think are the most interesting T designs of all):



As for N cards foretelling modern cards, The N269 Lorillard set is one I enjoy because the cards are roughly modern in dimensions and have bio backs

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

T205's are very pretty indeed. Great looking cards. But T206 is the Granddaddy of all sets. It is the Monster. Its has the Wagner. It has the backs and well over 5000+ combinations. In my opinion, nothing, and I mean NO sports cards set, beats T206. And these guys all agree!

DITTO....to what Ryan said.

I have put together 5 different T206 sets since 1981. And, only one T205 set, because the T205 cards just don't have the "charm" that the T206 cards do.
These images are crisp, and there is something magical about them.













TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[drcy]

I think the T206 is the greatest, plus my favorite, set ever made.

However, one can collect both plus other issues.

[Casey2296]

I'll choose T206 portraits because of the Horner Studio connection. I'll agree with Bill that I would rather have a T205 Matty instead of a T206 portrait

[GasHouseGang]

Well clearly the T205's are falling behind in pictures posted to prove the point, so here are a few to even the score. That should be enough for a little while. At least until Ted Zanidakis or Ryan (Rhotchkiss) jumps in again!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Well clearly the T205's are falling behind in pictures posted to prove the point, so here are a few to even the score. That should be enough for a little while. At least until Ted Zanidakis or Ryan (Rhotchkiss) jumps in again!

Absolutely love T205s with those crisp almost unblemished borders....
Such a hard choice between the 2 sets.

[jchcollins]

Disclaimer: I don't really collect prewar for the most part - because I couldn't afford it as a kid, and then I certainly couldn't afford it when I got back into the hobby in my late 30's a few years back. For my money I'd rather get midgrade cards of HOF'ers from the postwar era than beat cards of players I've never heard of from prewar - but I digress. I did grow up learning a lot about these sets, and have had the odd cards pass through here and there in my collection:

I would not disparage T206 as one of the great sets of all time. It was the first major national issue of cards that kids could for the most part get their hands on, and of course the Wagner made it iconic - and probably is the reason that poor condition commons from the set go for $50 and up (on eBay I can't find many even that cheap...) today. It's probably the most important set historically, in part due to those reasons.

My choice here would be T205 however, because if nothing else I would say it's sorely underrated in comparison to T206 and as perhaps the greatest follow-up set of all-time. There are still elements of T205 being reasonable and down to earth that no longer exist with T206, IMO. I think you all have pretty well covered that.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Well clearly the T205's are falling behind in pictures posted to prove the point, so here are a few to even the score. That should be enough for a little while.
At least until Ted Zanidakis or Ryan (Rhotchkiss) jumps in again !

David M......Don't jump to any conclusions about me

After I sold my complete T205 set years ago. I started doing T205 runs. Especially, of Yankees players. This Huggins run is complete (that is if no DRUM exists).

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V----------------------------------- AMERICAN BEAUTY - BROAD LEAF - CYCLE - DRUM connection (A - B - C - D) -----------------------------------V







Factory #649 ..................... HASSAN Factory #30



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by tedzan

David M......Don't jump to any conclusions about me

After I sold my complete T205 set years ago. I started doing T205 runs. Especially, of Yankees players. This Huggins run is complete (that is if no DRUM exists).

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Ted,
I should have known you'd have all the back combinations in the T205's as well!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by BobC

I never expected or anticipated someone to try and bring up boxing, golf cards, or the like because those are not comparable to sports where you have seasons and stats shown as on the backs of cards like the T205s, and how similar they are to modern cards for baseball and other major team sports. I should know there are always going to be some who twist things for their own purposes or meanings so as to criticize others. Boxing's popularity now or then has nothing to do with this as listing the results of several fights is totally different than listing a player's annual stats in a season by season format, as shown on the T205 cards, which is what I was referring to. I don't think I've ever seen a modern baseball card issue that shows how all the players did game by game, which is what these boxing card stats you referenced do, show how the fighter performed event by event. Which as far as I'm concerned shows you either don't understand my point at all, or are just possibly trying to be a troll?

To me the idea that the T205 cards were the first ever to be like how they show bio info and annual statistics on cards today was one of the things that attracted me to them. Were they the true inspiration for how modern cards display a player's annual stats, maybe, maybe not, who really knows for sure? You citing 1952 Topps as the inspiration for modern cards is not accurate. I think of 1952 Topps as the start of modern cards, whose design may have been inspired by things like what was shown on T205 cards. That was the reference I was making and referring to. You want to call me out on what your differing thoughts and opinions are on what constitutes the way modern cards are described, go right ahead. It certainly doesn't make you right or me wrong. I can't, nor would I ever try to, prove that the way season stats were portrayed on the backs of T205 cards was the true inspiration for how they ended up being shown on '52 Topps cards, but you can't prove to me they weren't either. And since I'm not aware of an earlier set that ever showed seasonal player stats prior to how it was shown on the T205s, the T205s could have very well been an influence or even indirect inspiration to the '52 Topps production after all. I'm assuming that whenever people designing sports cards go to produce them that they often study and examine previous major card issues of others to possibly glean ideas and insights for their own new card issue (like listing player stats season by season), and to not erroneously copy other designs without full knowledge and intent in doing so. And as for asking others for information on earlier examples of sets, quit trying to be snarky by somehow inferring that I'm then making that out to be problem, which is exactly what you're trying to do. You are, or at least should be, better than that. I am pretty familiar with all the main baseball sets listed in the old SCD catalogs over the years, and am fairly confident that there isn't going to be any earlier baseball card issues that show individual player season's stats like they do on the T205s, along with player bios. But I also know that I clearly don't know everything (and in fact know very little), and am well aware there could be some weird, obscure, or only recently discovered set out there I've never heard of before that does have some similar seasonal player stats and bios on the back. But if there is, I think it fair to speculate that it is so rare and obscure, or possibly even unknown at the time, that the people designing the '52 Topps set (Sy Berger right?) wouldn't have been aware of and/or used it for potential design and layout ideas like they would have with a much more well known and popular set like the T205s. It is no problem, just something that makes logical common sense if some weird and obscure earlier issue does in fact exist, and contrary to what you're trying to say by twisting my words and meanings into what I never intended.

Annual stats in a season format. Not a weird or obscure issue, it is one of the more common T issues made by the exact same company.

Still haven't seen evidence the earliest cards of T205 precedes T201; I'm not sure which came first. If you don't like it, that's fine. You can write as many paragraphs as you want about how pointing out earlier examples is trolling, asking others for their opinions shows the point is obscure and insist modern cards are using T205 as inspiration for their back designs. Enjoy that. I'm really only interested in evidence of what the first stat back sets were, both for baseball and for sports in general. We go back to the 1880's with Cabinets, but those with those backs generally weren't full sets. We have British sets and some N sets using the write up element, and some other T sets using both. T205 isn't the first for sports; I'm unsure if it is for Baseball.