Hey, pennant guys

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Hmmm … Senators is WGN. Braves and Red Sox are Ad Flag. The Giants at the bottom of column 2 is a seperate unknown company. The others all seem to be the same company. This includes all the late 40s team pennants with names like this one

What's nice about the this 1950 NL champs pennant is the amount of hand written script utilized on it. When I'm trying to ID a pennant, I look closely at the artwork because I know, more often than not, the same artist produced the art featured across the series; and artwork includes scripts utilized. In the 1940s, the artist couldn't just dial-in whatever font they desired like you can on a word processor today; they had to make the font. It's extremely personal to the artist.

For example, if you look at all the pennants from Trench's stadium pennant series in the 1950s, you'll see the same unique script utilized for the ballpark name, e.g., "Sportsman's Park"; "Milwaukee County Stadium," etc. That script is essentially Trench's signature.

Your 1950 NL champs pennant features an entirely different script. It's definitely not by Trench's artist. It does appear similar to WGN's, as WGN's ca. 1950s ASG pennants featured a similar cursive script. Greg, compare WGN's 1950 ASG pennant featuring Comiskey Park and the AL/NL "book" roster. Similar cursive scripts, right? But compare the names "Roberts" and "Hammer" ... although similar, they appear different to me. Different "R" and different "H" as best I can tell from pictures....

Maybe you can confirm by giving us a side-by-side comparison, since I don't own either pennant?

Anyway, my suggestion: follow this unique script to a known pennant by maker, and you'll have solved the greatest pennant mystery of the 20th century.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

What's nice about the this 1950 NL champs pennant is the amount of hand written script utilized on it. When I'm trying to ID a pennant, I look closely at the artwork because I know, more often than not, the same artist produced the art featured across the series; and artwork includes scripts utilized. In the 1940s, the artist couldn't just dial-in whatever font they desired like you can on a word processor today; they had to make the font. It's extremely personal to the artist.

For example, if you look at all the pennants from Trench's stadium pennant series in the 1950s, you'll see the same unique script utilized for the ballpark name, e.g., "Sportsman's Park"; "Milwaukee County Stadium," etc. That script is essentially Trench's signature.

Your 1950 NL champs pennant features an entirely different script. It's definitely not by Trench's artist. It does appear similar to WGN's, as WGN's ca. 1950s ASG pennants featured a similar cursive script. Greg, compare WGN's 1950 ASG pennant featuring Comiskey Park and the AL/NL "book" roster. Similar cursive scripts, right? But compare the names "Roberts" and "Hammer" ... although similar, they appear different to me. Different "R" and different "H" as best I can tell from pictures....

Maybe you can confirm by giving us a side-by-side comparison, since I don't own either pennant?

Anyway, my suggestion: follow this unique script to a known pennant by maker, and you'll have solved the greatest pennant mystery of the 20th century.

What rules out WGN is the way the spine is stitched. I don’t know how to describe it but it appears to be “double stitched” on the back, for reinforcement, which is why you rarely see loose threads on these. Keezer, Ad Flag and ASCO had similar stitching. Trench and WGN are different in that regard. I’ll have to take pics when I return home.

[thetahat]

Yikes. Definitely not vintage.

[thetahat]

Cool pic of Jackie right after his retirement. But completely wiped out by the fact that someone applied tape to that beauty of a pennant! Noooooooooooo!

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Yikes. Definitely not vintage.

I must admit, I listed one of these exact pennants as ‘vintage’ a few months ago as I bought it with actual vintage pennants. After your input I changed the description and price. It’s great there is a community that self regulates and helps correct inaccurate postings!

[thetahat]

There were a batch of older repros of defunct teams made around the late 1970s … the construction of the pennant dates them. The Browns and Pilots are always auctioned as vintage and I’m pretty sure the book includes them. Senators, Boston Braves, Phila A’s … in fact I think the seller of the Colts is selling all of these as vintage. And I think Mark said it before, this could be a Xmas gift from wife to husband, neither of whom may ever know …

Of course it’s understandable how most people might not know … I have reached out to other sellers before, most appreciate it but some take offense and insist they are authentic.

[thetahat]

These pennants also fit the “sliding runner” style pennant, almost definitely the same company. This hopefully gives Mark the opportunity to repost his sweet Brooklyn Dodgers pennant …

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

There were a batch of older repros of defunct teams made around the late 1970s … the construction of the pennant dates them. The Browns and Pilots are always auctioned as vintage and I’m pretty sure the book includes them. Senators, Boston Braves, Phila A’s … in fact I think the seller of the Colts is selling all of these as vintage. And I think Mark said it before, this could be a Xmas gift from wife to husband, neither of whom may ever know …

Of course it’s understandable how most people might not know … I have reached out to other sellers before, most appreciate it but some take offense and insist they are authentic.

Once you've seen enough, these stand out like a sore thumb. I think half of the sellers know but still pedal them as vintage, while the other half simply don't sell enough to know the difference.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Once you've seen enough, these stand out like a sore thumb. I think half of the sellers know but still pedal them as vintage, while the other half simply don't sell enough to know the difference.

There is a 1958 Corpus Christi Hooks pennant on ebay, right now. The seller calls it both a SGA and vintage. I guess it’s a vintage, not old, SGA.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

What rules out WGN is the way the spine is stitched. I don’t know how to describe it but it appears to be “double stitched” on the back, for reinforcement, which is why you rarely see loose threads on these. Keezer, Ad Flag and ASCO had similar stitching. Trench and WGN are different in that regard. I’ll have to take pics when I return home.

Confirmed. Different artists. The upper case "J"s and "R"s do not match.

The mystery continues....

[thetahat]

It seems as if the sliding runner pennant company is in the “top 3” as far as quantity made (guess, of course). Trench and WGN being the other two. Next tier is Keezer, Ad Flag, ASCO.

Anyone get that beautiful orange Orioles scroll pennant that just sold on eBay?

[matty39]

St Paul Saints

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by matty39

St Paul Saints

Such a beautiful display! I was the last-second underbidder on that red St. Paul Saints pennant just over a year or so ago. I love the entire collection!

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by matty39

St Paul Saints

That is a truly amazing selection of Pennants and a Great way of Displaying them

That Really Catches the eye

Wow and Congrats

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by matty39

St Paul Saints

Ditto, that’s a super cool display. Many of those must be lone survivors.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by matty39

St Paul Saints

Wow, what a great display. So many Ferguson Bakery pennants in one place!

With regards to the sliding runner, is the players number meaningful? I've noticed that on many of these the runner has the #4. On others like the NY Giants below and the St Paul Saints, it's the #7.

Knowing that different pennant manufacturers "borrowed" artwork from each other, could that imply a 2nd manufacturer?

[ooo-ribay]

Kind of a funny story of a screw up that turned out OK....a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned I was bidding on an Inside the Park pennant...I didn't win but Bocca alerted me that Keith Javic had the same pennant in his Etsy store. I immediately jumped on it. I didn't love the pennant but it was a new one for my Giants collection and pickings have been slim. A few days later, while the pennant was enroute, I was scrolling through my memorabilia pictures, looking for something else. I scrolled past a picture of the pennant I was waiting on. I thought, "Oh, wow, that's a decent picture of the pennant I'm waiting on...man, that looks like our table...that looks like my off brand tape measure beside it....SH*T! I already have that pennant!"

The funny thing is, I even posted pictures here on 8/15/19 (post #2433). I have three spreadsheets of acquisitions where this pennant should be entered. It appears in none of them. I have no idea who I got it from or what I paid. Keith was gracious enough to accept a return . Another, more attractive NY Giants pennant is on its way from him. Keith and Bocca both said they have mistakenly bought duplicates before, so I'm not the only dope.

This is one unattractive pennant, huh? I'm thinking the White Sox must be by the same maker. Is it my imagination or were the 1940's a time for particularly unattractive pennants?