Gil Hodges

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by dealme

Tommy John...for the combination of his pitching and the surgery that bears his name. I suppose one could argue that Dr Jobe should be the one in the Hall, but someone had to have the guts to say, “Sure. Go ahead and try that on me.”

For the record, I think the Hall is watered down. However, given where the current bar is set, I think Tommy John should be in. Plus, like Gil Hodges, he’s a native Hoosier.


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Why are performance enhancing drugs taboo, but performance enhancing surgical procedures celebrated? Seriously, what's the difference? Both use modern technologies to give one athlete an advantage over another.

[ClementeFanOh]

'Why are performance enhancing drugs taboo, but performance enhancing surgical procedures celebrated? Seriously, what's the difference? Both use modern technologies to give one athlete an advantage over another"

Mark S- I hope I'm missing your sarcasm, truly... if not, the answer to your
question is that surgical repair fixes injury that prevents an athlete from
competing at their earned level. PEDs give the abuser an advantage they
didn't earn or possess in the first place. PLEASE tell me it was sarcasm, renew
my faith...

Trent King

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

'Why are performance enhancing drugs taboo, but performance enhancing surgical procedures celebrated? Seriously, what's the difference? Both use modern technologies to give one athlete an advantage over another"

Mark S- I hope I'm missing your sarcasm, truly... if not, the answer to your
question is that surgical repair fixes injury that prevents an athlete from
competing at their earned level. PEDs give the abuser an advantage they
didn't earn or possess in the first place. PLEASE tell me it was sarcasm, renew
my faith...
Trent King

Generally true, but I have heard anecdotal reports of young kids getting Tommy John as a prophylactic measure before they actually need it. Like "get it out of the way now" kind of logic.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

the answer to your
question is that surgical repair fixes injury that prevents an athlete from
competing at their earned level. PEDs give the abuser an advantage they
didn't earn or possess in the first place.

Trent King

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Generally true, but I have heard anecdotal reports of young kids getting Tommy John as a prophylactic measure before they actually need it. Like "get it out of the way now" kind of logic.

If Tommy John surgery can add a few MPH to a pitchers' fastball, that gives him an advantage he didn't "earn."

As far as the Hall of Fame debates, and performance technology, give cortisone to Smoky Joe Wood and take it away from Sandy Koufax, and their peak careers might have been the inverse of each other.

[ClementeFanOh]

Mark S- So, you weren't being sarcastic. Wow... How do you counter the
fact that PEDs are explicitly forbidden by MLB policy? Can't wait for that tap
dance to begin... Physician approved surgery and PEDs are NOT the same
animal. Trent King

[BobC]

Before you guys start going postal on each other, let me twist the question a bit. What about a guy who doesn't have perfect vision, and he goes and has Lasik surgery done and improves his sight more than it ever was. He certainly didn't "earn" the better eyesight, so why should that be allowed then? As one poster claimed, medical surgery is okay and allowed in his thinking because it gets the player healthy and back to his peak performance level that he had "earned". So what about Lasik surgery, a player doing that certainly wouldn't "earn" better eyesight, would he?

But someone taking something like androstenedione, which I believe still is a perfectly legal over the counter supplement used to bulk up (what McGwire was taking before MLB banned it for player use), would get suspended and potentially banned from baseball if caught using it. If I understand it correctly though, you don't just take the andro' and then suddenly blow up and get huge muscles. I believe the person still has to hit the weight room and work out like crazy to build up those muscles, which sure sounds to me like that player has to work his ass off to "earn" those muscles.

Funny, MLB will allow Lasik surgery, which can give a player a totally "unearned" advantage, yet they won't allow certain supplements (that get lumped in under the PED blanket) where the player still has to work hard to build up themselves and at least partially "earn" that alleged advantage. Seems a bit arbitrary and misguided on MLB's part to my thinking. And possibly along the same line of reasoning used by one poster who questioned why players getting surgery are okay, but their use of certain legal supplements isn't. I can see where that person may have a valid point, and certainly didn't deserve to get attacked and jumped on by another poster who maybe didn't think things through quite enough before attacking! Hmmmmmmmmm!

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by BobC

Before you guys start going postal on each other, let me twist the question a bit. What about a guy who doesn't have perfect vision, and he goes and has Lasik surgery done and improves his sight more than it ever was. He certainly didn't "earn" the better eyesight, so why should that be allowed then? As one poster claimed, medical surgery is okay and allowed in his thinking because it gets the player healthy and back to his peak performance level that he had "earned". So what about Lasik surgery, a player doing that certainly wouldn't "earn" better eyesight, would he?

But someone taking something like androstenedione, which I believe still is a perfectly legal over the counter supplement used to bulk up (what McGwire was taking before MLB banned it for player use), would get suspended and potentially banned from baseball if caught using it. If I understand it correctly though, you don't just take the andro' and then suddenly blow up and get huge muscles. I believe the person still has to hit the weight room and work out like crazy to build up those muscles, which sure sounds to me like that player has to work his ass off to "earn" those muscles.

Funny, MLB will allow Lasik surgery, which can give a player a totally "unearned" advantage, yet they won't allow certain supplements (that get lumped in under the PED blanket) where the player still has to work hard to build up themselves and at least partially "earn" that alleged advantage. Seems a bit arbitrary and misguided on MLB's part to my thinking. And possibly along the same line of reasoning used by one poster who questioned why players getting surgery are okay, but their use of certain legal supplements isn't. I can see where that person may have a valid point, and certainly didn't deserve to get attacked and jumped on by another poster who maybe didn't think things through quite enough before attacking! Hmmmmmmmmm!

+1

Lived in Missouri for several years while McGwire played for the Cards and I dont believe that he took anything that wasn't readily available, on the shelf, at his local GNC Store.