Where Cards are and are going - Link to Josh Luper's "statement"

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Seven

I know hate is a strong word, but I really hate the idea of Wall Street recognizing the hobby, and people considering cards some type of asset class. Don't get me wrong, I am happy for the people who make a living selling cards, but the commoditization of our hobby, really rubs me the wrong way. The concept of buying "shares" of a high graded card completely defeats the purpose of collecting in the first place in my opinion. Most of us collect because we enjoy the history of the game. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be high dollar cards, scarcity definitely drives the vintage market, I just wish the concept of a "portfolio of cards" as if they were a company, existed. Might sound a bit like an "old man yells at cloud" rant, because it probably is, but that's just my opinion.

I didn’t read the article and I don’t plan to. But I can tell you that for decades I have thought of cards as an asset class. I started buying and selling cards again after law school (previously I collected from age 8-17) in order to help pay for school. Then, in 2014, once I started making some excess income, I looked at cards as a place to invest. Luckily, I believe what I “collect” to be good investments, but I certainly put money in cards a long time ago for the primary purpose of making money. My point is that cards have been an “asset class” for a long time (long before I looked at them that way). It’s just that now, many more people see it as a an asset class. The hobby has gone from a niche to mainstream, which has attracted more outside money and created innovation (fractional shares, NFTs, wax breaks) and created affiliate products (grading, card scanning apps, digital price guides, etc). It’s all a logical progression

I buy old and rare cards, preferably of blue chip players and/or sets. I have collected off and on for almost 40 years and the one truth is that the good cards consistently go up in value over time. I am conservative by nature, so I will stick to my knitting and enjoy my collection of dead HOFers

All that said, I do think prices are a little out of control and I am not nearly as bullish on card board as many. Who knows, it will be what it be. But I also believe what is good for modern is also good for vintage and that a riding ride lifts all boats (at the same time, tidal waves destroy all boats)

[FrankWakefield]

As a collector of old cards viewing them as an "asset class" and looking at them as an investment (and I am absolutely NOT that kind of collector), it seems to me that such an asset class collector would be buying cards of Cobb, Ruth, Gehrig, Wagner, Young, Johnson, Lajoie... stuff like that. And they wouldn't be buying common cards or making any effort whatsoever toward collecting sets.

Lawyer Rotchkiss, is that how it's done? Or do you collect a little bit on the side?

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

As a collector of old cards viewing them as an "asset class" and looking at them as an investment (and I am absolutely NOT that kind of collector), it seems to me that such an asset class collector would be buying cards of Cobb, Ruth, Gehrig, Wagner, Young, Johnson, Lajoie... stuff like that. And they wouldn't be buying common cards or making any effort whatsoever toward collecting sets.

Lawyer Rotchkiss, is that how it's done? Or do you collect a little bit on the side?

Hi Frank. Actually, almost my entire collection is comprised of Wagner, Cobb, Ruth, Joe Jackson, etc. I do love t206s and that’s sometimes where I “collect” - I have the set, plus several back runs and I am working on others and a set of all one type of back. Plus I am working on back runs of Cobb/Wagner in other issues. I do love cards, so I do stray sometimes, but for the most part I stick to the blue chips. I find that the back variations give me enough latitude to be a collector of investments. A link to my collection is in the area below all my posts.

I haven’t practiced law in over 16 years, and I don’t miss it all!!

[FrankWakefield]

Sounds like you're enjoying life after lawyering, congrats!

[samosa4u]

I read about half of this article scholarly essay and the author does make some interesting points. However, he feels that the 2020 boom would have happened, even if the pandemic hadn't occurred, and I don't agree with that at all. And just like how he doesn't believe the role the pandemic played in bringing the prices up to astronomical levels, he also doesn't believe that mass vaccinations and restrictions being lifted played a role in the big decline that we saw earlier this year. And finally, he makes no mention of Gary Vaynerchuk. Does he fail to realize the kind of impact this man had on card prices? Think about it: he has 2.6 million followers on his Twitter account, and there are also millions more followers who are non-subscribers. Now, this guy is considered an "investment guru" and what do you think happened when he started posting pictures of himself with basketball, wrestling and soccer cards? Prices went insane. There was one member on this forum who would get ripped to bits by everybody whenever he shared pictures of his cheap wrestling cards here - does anybody remember that? Well, when somebody offered me $500 USD for my Hulk Hogan, I thought that person was insane, and of course I did the deal. Today, this same card is selling for thousands. And at the same time, when Gary stopped promoting cards to his millions of followers and moved on to NFTs, then what happened? Card prices dropped while NFTs went nuts.

[Exhibitman]

Sounds like Gary V is into creating yet another tulip mania [per Wikipedia]: Tulip mania (Dutch: tulpenmanie) was a period during the Dutch Golden Age when contract prices for some bulbs of the recently introduced and fashionable tulip reached extraordinarily high levels, with the major acceleration starting in 1634 and then dramatically collapsing in February 1637. It is generally considered to have been the first recorded speculative bubble or asset bubble in history.

Lots of money to be made on manias; just don't be the last one standing holding the asset when the bubble pops. You can't readily bubble a vintage card because there are not enough of them to generate the fast flips that build momentum for a mania. Can't do a FOMO post on a card that only sells a few times a year.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I didn’t read the article and I don’t plan to. But I can tell you that for decades I have thought of cards as an asset class. I started buying and selling cards again after law school (previously I collected from age 8-17) in order to help pay for school. Then, in 2014, once I started making some excess income, I looked at cards as a place to invest. Luckily, I believe what I “collect” to be good investments, but I certainly put money in cards a long time ago for the primary purpose of making money. My point is that cards have been an “asset class” for a long time (long before I looked at them that way). It’s just that now, many more people see it as a an asset class. The hobby has gone from a niche to mainstream, which has attracted more outside money and created innovation (fractional shares, NFTs, wax breaks) and created affiliate products (grading, card scanning apps, digital price guides, etc). It’s all a logical progression

I buy old and rare cards, preferably of blue chip players and/or sets. I have collected off and on for almost 40 years and the one truth is that the good cards consistently go up in value over time. I am conservative by nature, so I will stick to my knitting and enjoy my collection of dead HOFers

All that said, I do think prices are a little out of control and I am not nearly as bullish on card board as many. Who knows, it will be what it be. But I also believe what is good for modern is also good for vintage and that a riding ride lifts all boats (at the same time, tidal waves destroy all boats)

I have always considered my "stuff" as an asset, whether it was a work truck, rental property, or yes, my cards, autographs and memorabilia. Just because I love "it" and may have kept it for 20 years, doesn't make me think of it as anything other than an asset.
I shit you not, I just sold some well used shirts and jeans that were 20-30 years old for the amount I payed for them originally. The buyer was a Wardrobe shopper for a film production. I was surprised, but only at the prices realized. Every time I wore them, I was always telling my wife "They don't make them like this anymore" and the market bore me out.
Over the years I have rehomed some items that didn't speak to me anymore to someone with a more advanced need, sometimes at a NET54 discount. I always introduce myself to antiques dealers and yard sale folks as a "Re-homer", I find it, I buy it, I research and enjoy it. And at some point I get it into the hands of the person it should belong to.
I would not have an IRA holding Baseball cards. But if I needed to fund my IRA, my item's would certainly become liquid if necessary.

[slantycouch]

Bit of a shot in the dark, but does anyone have an active email address for Josh Luber? I have an old one that is no longer working and can't seem to find a good one. Thanks for any assistance.