Were the T210's actually a 1910 issue or were they issued in 1911?

[oldeboo]

I completely agree about having an open mind. Raise questions and try to figure them out is the best we can do. In my opinion, I just see more evidence towards T210 being a mostly 1910 distribution and I think there is a good chance the "Texas League baseball players" is a solid clue.

Thanks for sharing that link. There seems to be something interesting going on, especially with the Texas League P350s.

I know one thing with absolute certainty. I would have been completely pissed off if I was told I was getting Texas League cards and then there were only 6 of them and I only had a 12.5% chance of getting one. I would have been switching brands.

Since this is essentially an Old Mill discussion, and these nuggets of information are intertwined, do you have an opinion on the third version of that Old Mill ad from Hawaii? Maybe there are other locations, but haven't seen them. I'm sure you're aware of this version. I believe it ran for a decent amount of time in the summer of 1911. It removes the mention of baseball pictures, but still shows T206 inside an Old Mill pack. A case of false advertising or do you think it's connected to something? One of the regular OM print runs maybe?

[Steve D]

Here's a previous thread about T210s that might provide some help/insight:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...=t210+cy+young

Steve

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by Steve D

Here's a previous thread about T210s that might provide some help/insight:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...=t210+cy+young

Steve

Nice thread with some solid information.

To expand on your post a tad, here is a clipping that discusses the Virginia Valley League photographs.

[Pat R]

We just have different opinions on what the evidence is telling us Trey no problem there.

Awhile back I asked about the Cabinets mentioned on the Old Mill ledger pageI think you could send in for them or the way it reads they were also in the cartons.

[IMG][/IMG]

I just found this newspaper clip and to me it suggest there was enough interest in the cabinets to inspire them to start making the T210's.

December 12 1910 Greenville News
The_Greenville_News_Mon__Dec_12__1910_.jpg

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Pat R

We just have different opinions on what the evidence is telling us Trey no problem there.

Awhile back I asked about the Cabinets mentioned on the Old Mill ledger pageI think you could send in for them or the way it reads they were also in the cartons.

I just found this newspaper clip and to me it suggest there was enough interest in the cabinets to inspire them to start making the T210's.

December 12 1910 Greenville News
Attachment 486421

Patrick, it is almost certain that the cabinets came after the T210 cards. They include two players listed for Petersburg that appear on T210 cards for Portsmouth. As I mentioned in a prior post, Lipset reports that that the team moved from Portsmouth to Petersburg in July 1910, but all T210 players show Portsmouth--they do not show the team change. Surely the cards would have noted the change if they came after the cabinets.

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Patrick, it is almost certain that the cabinets came after the T210 cards. They include two players listed for Petersburg that appear on T210 cards for Portsmouth. As I mentioned in a prior post, Lipset reports that that the team moved from Portsmouth to Petersburg in July 1910, but all T210 players show Portsmouth--they do not show the team change. Surely the cards would have noted the change if they came after the cabinets.

That sounds correct. You also have this clipping to connect the actual photographs to before 4/27/1910 from the Carolina Association, Eastern Carolina League, and very likely the Virginia League. If one was to believe the ledger is indicating H801-7 began shipping 5/6/1910, then it seems we have this pinned down to an exact sequence of dates. If the move wasn't until July 1910 those specific cabinets may have shipped later. The more I look at that ledger, the "began shipping 3/17/1910" is when T210 distribution began. It's right there in handwriting. We already know that some of the T210-8 images match cards produced in 1909. Are there other 1909 images in T210? It is directly next to the picture coupon which is related to T210 and there is no indication that it is T206. The writing above that is next to the T206 coupon. The discontinued date aligns with the end of the "Texas League baseball pictures" ads almost exactly. The discontinued date is even three days after that clipping that describes that fine gentlemen from Old Mill planning to visit Greenville with some gifts. Again, the discontinued date is directly next to the T210 coupon, not the T206 coupon. All of that information certainly confirms 1910 for me, amazing what all of those clippings and other pieces of information can reveal. That ledger looks spot on.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by oldeboo

Yeah, I had seen that earlier. "Some time ago" people were able to get the H801-7s during the distribution of T210. The visitation by the Old Mill representative was after the main distribution through the cases, during the 1910 season. These cabinets were used to draw a customer into a product that looked very similar to it, they would not have shipped with cards that looked absolutely nothing like the cabinets. T210 Series 2, 5, and 7 are very closely connected in more ways than one, such as T209-2. Geographically speaking, they were also at the core of the Old Mill factory in Virginia. Those series consist of the Virginia League, Carolina Association, and East Carolina League. It's one piece to the puzzle.

Check out post #9 in the link for the method of distribution of H801-7:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171131

Again, please reference post #21 in this thread:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=232761

T210-8 tells a very interesting story in relation to T211 and some issues that seem earlier such as Hindu SL. You have to dissect the T210 set in pieces. The pieces tell the story.

I don't see anything in those two threads that change my opinion.

Originally Posted by oldeboo

That sounds correct. You also have this clipping to connect the actual photographs to before 4/27/1910 from the Carolina Association, Eastern Carolina League, and very likely the Virginia League. If one was to believe the ledger is indicating H801-7 began shipping 5/6/1910, then it seems we have this pinned down to an exact sequence of dates. If the move wasn't until July 1910 those specific cabinets may have shipped later. The more I look at that ledger, the "began shipping 3/17/1910" is when T210 distribution began. It's right there in handwriting. We already know that some of the T210-8 images match cards produced in 1909. Are there other 1909 images in T210? It is directly next to the picture coupon which is related to T210 and there is no indication that it is T206. The writing above that is next to the T206 coupon. The discontinued date aligns with the end of the "Texas League baseball pictures" ads almost exactly. The discontinued date is even three days after that clipping that describes that fine gentlemen from Old Mill planning to visit Greenville with some gifts. Again, the discontinued date is directly next to the T210 coupon, not the T206 coupon. All of that information certainly confirms 1910 for me, amazing what all of those clippings and other pieces of information can reveal. That ledger looks spot on.

This all coincides with T206's it even states one Nat'l and 1 southern league picture.

This is just my opinion you don't have to accept. I see evidence that at the very least some of the T210's appear to have been distributed in 1911 I haven't seen one thing that convinces me they were distributed in 1910 like an ad or newspaper clip on the distribution. There are clips that they took the pictures in 1910 but to me that's not proof they distributed them in 1910. The T206 pictures were taken long before they printed the T206's it states that in the Ball letter, they had the pictures before they even attempted to get permission to use them.

[oldeboo]

Yeah, I had seen that earlier. "Some time ago" people were able to get the H801-7s during the distribution of T210. The visitation by the Old Mill representative was after the main distribution through the cases, during the 1910 season. These cabinets were used to draw a customer into a product that looked very similar to it, they would not have shipped with cards that looked absolutely nothing like the cabinets. T210 Series 2, 5, and 7 are very closely connected in more ways than one, such as T209-2. Geographically speaking, they were also at the core of the Old Mill factory in Virginia. Those series consist of the Virginia League, Carolina Association, and East Carolina League. It's one piece to the puzzle.

Check out post #9 in the link for the method of distribution of H801-7:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171131

Again, please reference post #21 in this thread:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=232761

T210-8 tells a very interesting story in relation to T211 and some issues that seem earlier such as Hindu SL. You have to dissect the T210 set in pieces. The pieces tell the story.