SGC kept my Vic Willis T206 gray back variation

[Mark17]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your contributions! So now I'm not so bothered by the card going missing, since it is apparently just a very damaged card and not a fairly uncommon print variation. That makes the whole issue more of a curiosity than a real problem.

I think your explanation of chemicals/fade is logical with my example, as there are parts that have the correct burgundy color indicating that ink was present during the printing process. I have seen other Willis portraits with completely gray backgrounds. One was on ebay last year. And I've seen what I thought were "violet" variations.

Is your opinion these things are all due to chemical reactions or fade, as opposed to missing colors in the print process? Here is an example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144161666607

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your contributions! So now I'm not so bothered by the card going missing, since it is apparently just a very damaged card and not a fairly uncommon print variation. That makes the whole issue more of a curiosity than a real problem.

I think your explanation of chemicals/fade is logical with my example, as there are parts that have the correct burgundy color indicating that ink was present during the printing process. I have seen other Willis portraits with completely gray backgrounds. One was on ebay last year. And I've seen what I thought were "violet" variations.

Is your opinion these things are all due to chemical reactions or fade, as opposed to missing colors in the print process? Here is an example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144161666607

I think that example is a legitimate color variation but I couldn't say 100% without having it in hand.

This Willis you posted relates to the different stages within the same series that I posted about.

If they were printed in stages it would explain the different shades found on the Willis portraits and some of the other cards, we see this a lot with the Hindu's.

Here's one of my Willis cards that's quite a bit different from the one you posted and if they were printed in different stages the difference in them would come from having different color mixtures used in each stage.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Stampsfan]

Maybe they put in into a PWCC auction and it didn't receive the minimum $10 bid.

[Republicaninmass]

Hi Mark, I guess this is always everyone's biggest fear, aside from losing the package. Let me ask; do you still have ALL the packaging? Was the card listed on your form? Did you check and see if it might have been stuck to tur back of one of the slabbed cards? I went through the same ordeal. After panicking, I ended up finding the card in the package.

[Ronnie73]

There is a good chance that it was packed in a separate section of the box and possibly overlooked. Did you notice it missing right away and scramble through the packaging? Or did you open the box, remove the cards, and toss out the box and packaging before examining each of the cards?

I also agree with Pat about the color loss/change. I've been dealing with T206's in an extreme way and nearly all color variations are due to sun fading or chemical interactions, especially cards that were in a scrap book and soaked out. Many of the glues used back then, bleached out certain colors. Even the missing red ink cards that have been graded and authenticated, I stay away from. Especially if there's the slightest sign of back damage or back staining like water spots. Some of them are cool looking and neat to have, if your building a card player run, but I never pay more than 10 percent over a normal printed card. I make slight exceptions for certain cards that I enjoy the major contrast of the difference. Such as the Red Kleinow Batting with a bright yellow hat (that should be red). Another favorite of mine is a deep purple background on a Dougherty Portrait that is normally found closer to a grey color. But as favorite as it is of mine, I still don't own one, because it's difficult to prove rarity and authenticity on color differences. If you requested that SGC make a note of the color variation on the label, that's probably why they refused to grade it. Cards that are Scrap, that have color differences or missing colors, are usually the only one's I trust.

Anyways, I hope your missing card turns up. There's nothing that fixes the internal pain when a card becomes missing. I'm still grieving over a missing card from April 9th, 2019. A Jimmy Sheckard No Glove Sovereign 350 PSA 3. I still haven't replaced it.

[obcmac]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

There is a good chance that it was packed in a separate section of the box and possibly overlooked. Did you notice it missing right away and scramble through the packaging? Or did you open the box, remove the cards, and toss out the box and packaging before examining each of the cards?

I also agree with Pat about the color loss/change. I've been dealing with T206's in an extreme way and nearly all color variations are due to sun fading or chemical interactions, especially cards that were in a scrap book and soaked out. Many of the glues used back then, bleached out certain colors. Even the missing red ink cards that have been graded and authenticated, I stay away from. Especially if there's the slightest sign of back damage or back staining like water spots. Some of them are cool looking and neat to have, if your building a card player run, but I never pay more than 10 percent over a normal printed card. I make slight exceptions for certain cards that I enjoy the major contrast of the difference. Such as the Red Kleinow Batting with a bright yellow hat (that should be red). Another favorite of mine is a deep purple background on a Dougherty Portrait that is normally found closer to a grey color. But as favorite as it is of mine, I still don't own one, because it's difficult to prove rarity and authenticity on color differences. If you requested that SGC make a note of the color variation on the label, that's probably why they refused to grade it. Cards that are Scrap, that have color differences or missing colors, are usually the only one's I trust.

Anyways, I hope your missing card turns up. There's nothing that fixes the internal pain when a card becomes missing. I'm still grieving over a missing card from April 9th, 2019. A Jimmy Sheckard No Glove Sovereign 350 PSA 3. I still haven't replaced it.

Agreeing on the amazing difference in picture quality on the purple dougherty. Love the way it looks compared to a duller version. (sorry for the mini-hijack...hope the card turns up)

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I think that example is a legitimate color variation but I couldn't say 100% without having it in hand.

This Willis you posted relates to the different stages within the same series that I posted about.

If they were printed in stages it would explain the different shades found on the Willis portraits and some of the other cards, we see this a lot with the Hindu's.

Here's one of my Willis cards that's quite a bit different from the one you posted and if they were printed in different stages the difference in them would come from having different color mixtures used in each stage.

[IMG][/IMG]

If you compare the one with the more purple background to the on Patrick posted, you will also see that the uniform is a darker bluish gray. That bluish gray extends under the red background as well, you can see it at the right of the copy from the Burdick collection at the Met.
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/413558

The red is slightly translucent, so the darker color under the red makes it appear more purplish.