The hobby is surely passing me by

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Imagine for a moment that you are a black man. You take your son or daughter out and they ask you who Thomas Jefferson is and why there's a big statue of him in a public space. Would you want to ignore the fact that because of his race and privilege and black people's race and lack thereof, Jefferson was legally able to own people for no other reason than because they happened to look like you and your son?

Slavery and its effects are a crucial part of US history and continue to impact the daily lives of black Americans in ways many white Americans have difficulty understanding or acknowledging. The argument for taking down a Jefferson statue is not to whitewash history, but in fact just the opposite–to end the practice of publicly honoring white racists, which in itself whitewashes the horrors of slavery and racism that are intertwined with the accomplishments of celebrated white men such as Jefferson.

You need to capitalize Black, get with the times.

[Snapolit1]

In my family there are many men/boys. I am one of 4 sons. My father one of two sons. My parents have 12 grandsons in a row. Finally a girl on the 13th try.

Out of 20 or so males, there is one step-child who is mixed race.

Most of the men/boys have played one sport or another. Trained in the off season. Usually involves logging miles jogging.

Out of the oh, 15, so of us who have jogged a bit at one point of another, basically in the same group of neighborhoods, care to guess who is the only one to be stopped by the police while running and asked for ID. Twice now.
Over say 30 years. I'm sure you can figure it out. And, yeah, he's an A student football player if anyone cares.

It's not really that complicated. I have Harvard undergrad/Harvard law friends who have been put on the pavement facedown more that once or twice. For no real reason other than someone of his race was suspected of doing something somewhere. It's not that complicated.

Deny it all you want. This is the reality dark skin people face every time they leave the house. They are treated differently and unequally from white folks.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

In my family there are many men/boys. I am one of 4 sons. My father one of two sons. My parents have 12 grandsons in a row. Finally a girl on the 13th try.

Out of 20 or so males, there is one step-child who is mixed race.

Most of the men/boys have played one sport or another. Trained in the off season. Usually involves logging miles jogging.

Out of the oh, 15, so of us who have jogged a bit at one point of another, basically in the same group of neighborhoods, care to guess who is the only one to be stopped by the police while running and asked for ID. Twice now.
Over say 30 years. I'm sure you can figure it out. And, yeah, he's an A student football player if anyone cares.

It's not really that complicated. I have Harvard undergrad/Harvard law friends who have been put on the pavement facedown more that once or twice. For no real reason other than someone of his race was suspected of doing something somewhere. It's not that complicated.

Deny it all you want. This is the reality dark skin people face every time they leave the house. They are treated differently and unequally from white folks.

Yes but this is a straw man point, nobody has denied racism still exists although your statement makes an awfully big generalization. So does sexism/misogyny. And anti-Semitism. And homophobia. And so on. The question is whether removing statues changes anything.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

...question is whether removing statues changes anything.

Removing a statue absolutely changes things.

The deeper questions are (1) how significant are the changes, (2) how many people are impacted, and (3) for how long will that impact be felt?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes but this is a straw man point, nobody has denied racism still exists although your statement makes an awfully big generalization. So does sexism/misogyny. And anti-Semitism. And homophobia. And so on. The question is whether removing statues changes anything.

Well said.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes but this is a straw man point, nobody has denied racism still exists although your statement makes an awfully big generalization. So does sexism/misogyny. And anti-Semitism. And homophobia. And so on. The question is whether removing statues changes anything.

Well, as a Jew, let me tell you some of what it's meant for me.
The fact that Nazi symbols, statues, literature, and spoken word are outlawed in Germany has me sleep better. Knowing that the German nation not just acknowledges it's past but speaks the horrors of it's past as part of it's everyday today and future, make it supremely difficult for those at the extremes to magnify or romanticize it, which lets face it, is an attempt to legitimize it.

If America, as a nation that made it's very foundation and wealth off the backs of dehumanizing people of color, could authentically speak it's historical truth and describe its attempt to more authentically represent its ideals - it would reflect far better on it's self anointed image of savior of the dis-empowered and mistreated.
Do you think the countries we decry for human rights violations don't look at our society and laugh off our sanctimony because we barely practice what we preach?

This country is so far off the rails of harmony between white and black in this country, NOT because Black people have been speaking for their right to equal treatment under the eyes and practice of the law, but because certain political leaders have made it ok for far right extremists to have an equal right of an alternate truth that they are free to do whatever the hell they want regardless of zero moral equivalency and blatantly racist underpinning.

All those pining for a past where they didn't have to confront 'woke' society are merely dispirited at not enjoying the unfettered benefits of being in the power position of racial overlord.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Wut?

[SAllen2556]

Slavery has been suffered by the entire human race, all over the planet. Had slavery been limited to one race in one country during three centuries, its tragedies would not have been one-tenth the magnitude they were in fact.

Why this provincial view of a worldwide evil? Often it is those who are most crucial of a "Eurocentic" view of the world who are most Eurocentric when it comes to the evils and failings of the human race.

Why would anyone wish to arbitrarily understate an evil that plagued mankind for thousands of years, unless it was not this evil itself that was the real concern, but rather the present-day uses of that historic evil? Clearly, the ability to score ideological points against American society or to induce guilt and thereby extract benefits from the white population today, are greatly enhanced by making enslavement appear to be a peculiarly American, or a peculiarly white, crime.

Has a special sense of grievance ever helped advance any people?

-Thomas Sowell, "Black Rednecks and White Liberals"

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Well, as a Jew, let me tell you some of what it's meant for me.
The fact that Nazi symbols, statues, literature, and spoken word are outlawed in Germany has me sleep better. Knowing that the German nation not just acknowledges it's past but speaks the horrors of it's past as part of it's everyday today and future, make it supremely difficult for those at the extremes to magnify or romanticize it, which lets face it, is an attempt to legitimize it.

If America, as a nation that made it's very foundation and wealth off the backs of dehumanizing people of color, could authentically speak it's historical truth and describe its attempt to more authentically represent its ideals - it would reflect far better on it's self anointed image of savior of the dis-empowered and mistreated.
Do you think the countries we decry for human rights violations don't look at our society and laugh off our sanctimony because we barely practice what we preach?

This country is so far off the rails of harmony between white and black in this country, NOT because Black people have been speaking for their right to equal treatment under the eyes and practice of the law, but because certain political leaders have made it ok for far right extremists to have an equal right of an alternate truth that they are free to do whatever the hell they want regardless of zero moral equivalency and blatantly racist underpinning.

All those pining for a past where they didn't have to confront 'woke' society are merely dispirited at not enjoying the unfettered benefits of being in the power position of racial overlord.

wow... wild swing and a miss. You make it sound like blacks & whites can barely survive together. Back away from the NY Times and grab a pile of cards to admire.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

wow... wild swing and a miss. You make it sound like blacks & whites can barely survive together. Back away from the NY Times and grab a pile of cards to admire.

+1

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Well, as a Jew, let me tell you some of what it's meant for me.
The fact that Nazi symbols, statues, literature, and spoken word are outlawed in Germany has me sleep better. Knowing that the German nation not just acknowledges it's past but speaks the horrors of it's past as part of it's everyday today and future, make it supremely difficult for those at the extremes to magnify or romanticize it, which lets face it, is an attempt to legitimize it.

If America, as a nation that made it's very foundation and wealth off the backs of dehumanizing people of color, could authentically speak it's historical truth and describe its attempt to more authentically represent its ideals - it would reflect far better on it's self anointed image of savior of the dis-empowered and mistreated.
Do you think the countries we decry for human rights violations don't look at our society and laugh off our sanctimony because we barely practice what we preach?

This country is so far off the rails of harmony between white and black in this country, NOT because Black people have been speaking for their right to equal treatment under the eyes and practice of the law, but because certain political leaders have made it ok for far right extremists to have an equal right of an alternate truth that they are free to do whatever the hell they want regardless of zero moral equivalency and blatantly racist underpinning.

All those pining for a past where they didn't have to confront 'woke' society are merely dispirited at not enjoying the unfettered benefits of being in the power position of racial overlord.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syV2LkGpQB0

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Well, as a Jew, let me tell you some of what it's meant for me.
The fact that Nazi symbols, statues, literature, and spoken word are outlawed in Germany has me sleep better. Knowing that the German nation not just acknowledges it's past but speaks the horrors of it's past as part of it's everyday today and future, make it supremely difficult for those at the extremes to magnify or romanticize it, which lets face it, is an attempt to legitimize it.

If America, as a nation that made it's very foundation and wealth off the backs of dehumanizing people of color, could authentically speak it's historical truth and describe its attempt to more authentically represent its ideals - it would reflect far better on it's self anointed image of savior of the dis-empowered and mistreated.
Do you think the countries we decry for human rights violations don't look at our society and laugh off our sanctimony because we barely practice what we preach?

This country is so far off the rails of harmony between white and black in this country, NOT because Black people have been speaking for their right to equal treatment under the eyes and practice of the law, but because certain political leaders have made it ok for far right extremists to have an equal right of an alternate truth that they are free to do whatever the hell they want regardless of zero moral equivalency and blatantly racist underpinning.

All those pining for a past where they didn't have to confront 'woke' society are merely dispirited at not enjoying the unfettered benefits of being in the power position of racial overlord.

Isn't this a perfect example of why we are not supposed to go here on this board?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Isn't this a perfect example of why we are not supposed to go here on this board?

yes