T220 Silver - Uncut Edition

G1911 · #1 10-24-2021, 11:56 AM

Found something more, Pat.

Source is this site (may want to turn monitor brightness down before clicking), Hyland's contract is last item on the page: http://w.ringmemorabilia.com/Recent%20Adds.htm

Interesting stuff here. Unlike the Ball Letter, this says nothing about him appearing on a cigarette card specifically, just general use of a photograph. No compensation is offered. Letterhead gives us a couple more names to look into.

The September 1909 date is pretty far in advance of his cards appearing. Hyland is in T225-1 and T218-1. The boxing set print dates in the Old masters general must be for T225-1. T218-1 was done after February 7, 1910 but probably before July 4, 1910. Both sets were right about the same time. I believe T220 was not really intended as a separate set, but was thought of as part of T218 (note its matching but odd series name). Presumably his rights here were used for both sets. His T218 was cloned in C52, but was one of the 12 fighters cut from T219.

This letter bears Fulgraff's signature, but on Brett Lithographic letterhead, not Old Masters. Fulgraff's ledger includes information from long after this (like T223), and also from decades before, so him switching jobs between the two in this period doesn't seem to fit. They are probably the same company, or subsidiaries of the same parent. I think this would suggest the likeliest scenario is the less-shocking one, that it was indeed an ATC/American Lithographic partnership and these are quiet subsidiaries; cards printed at multiple locations but not by multiple independent businesses.

Not to make everything about T206, but this also strikes me as increasing the probability for why Wagner's card was pulled. Unlike the Ball Letter, this letter doesn't mention or imply tobacco whatsoever. If Wagner had signed a release like Hyland's instead of like Ball's, it would explain more realistically how they started production on his card and then Wagner asked them to stop once he found out what his image was actually being used for.

Fulgraff appears to have had quite a central role in several decades of tobacco premiums. I've never encountered his name before the Lelands Ledger. I will keep digging. There may be something in the library and archival systems, a lot of businesses and businessmen's papers simply disappear, but a lot from this time period actually ended up in storage or basements at some library, archive, or university. New York is littered with them, may be another avenue.

G1911 · #2 10-24-2021, 12:06 PM

Anyone here happen to have a NY Times description? I don't really feel like paying them just to search a couple articles. https://www.nytimes.com/1887/12/07/a...-must-pay.html

There seems to have been two Frank Fullgraff's in New York at this time, Frank T. and Frank G. Frank G. is our man.

Pat R · #3 10-24-2021, 12:19 PM

I found information on him Greg he was quite the athlete it seems. I'll clip and post some of it.

G1911 · #4 10-24-2021, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

I found information on him Greg he was quite the athlete it seems. I'll clip and post some of it.

Interesting. T218 features many members of the New York Athletic Club among its cards, who he says he is a member of in his letter to Hyland. Many of the boxers in it are in T225, which is in his ledger under the Old Masters business name, T220 (which bears a Brett stamp on the proof sheet) and T9 Turkey Red. T9 is of course improperly catalogued and it and T3 should really be the same. The Lelands auction says "An interesting note in the book where Frank Fullgraff credits himself with naming the Turkey Red Cigarettes along with several proofs for the Turkey Reds packaging". So this would seem to connect Fullgraff to the T218 cards and to the T3/T9, making him probably part of the Baseball issues as well (presumably the same releases for T3 and t206 were used instead of a different one with each set, as neither the Ball or Hyland letters seem to restrict use to a single card). I can't wait to see what you have found

G1911 · #5 10-24-2021, 12:48 PM

It strikes me as extremely odd that an employee of Old Masters, Brett, or American Lithographic (or some combination of the 3, which might really be 1 company) would be naming a prominent cigarette brand for American Tobacco. Perhaps he was working for both, the connection between the cigarette monopoly and the printers? It seems to me this gentleman might be the architect of the T card program in general, after he evidently was one of the people who worked on the N cards in the late 1880's, the first major trading card issues. Apparently, he then tries again in the 1920's under the T.F. Moore company name but it goes nowhere.

Pat R · #6 10-24-2021, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Interesting. T218 features many members of the New York Athletic Club among its cards, who he says he is a member of in his letter to Hyland. Many of the boxers in it are in T225, which is in his ledger under the Old Masters business name, T220 (which bears a Brett stamp on the proof sheet) and T9 Turkey Red. T9 is of course improperly catalogued and it and T3 should really be the same. The Lelands auction says "An interesting note in the book where Frank Fullgraff credits himself with naming the Turkey Red Cigarettes along with several proofs for the Turkey Reds packaging". So this would seem to connect Fullgraff to the T218 cards and to the T3/T9, making him probably part of the Baseball issues as well (presumably the same releases for T3 and t206 were used instead of a different one with each set, as neither the Ball or Hyland letters seem to restrict use to a single card). I can't wait to see what you have found

He was definitely a long time member of the New York Athletic Club and a baseball player.

July 25 1906
Fullgraff 1 July 25 1906.jpg

Nov. 20 1928
Fullgraff 2 Nov 20 1928.jpg

Jan. 12 1932
Fullgraff 3 Jan 12 1932.jpg

Nov. 19 1928 this has Frank C but I think it's a typo and should b G
Fullgraff 4 Mon__Nov_19__1928_.jpg

G1911 · #7 10-24-2021, 01:21 PM

Great stuff, he seems to have accomplished a lot. Another hobby of mine happens to be firearms, I have a number of books and documentation on 19th century shooting sports. I will see if I can find anything further in my library on this rifle championship he won.

Some of the gents in the main board may have material on the Grammercy team. It�s really seeming to me like Fullgraff is a major part of the T card history in general, and not just to a couple sets.

Pat R · #8 10-24-2021, 01:38 PM

Your panels have uncovered some fascinating information (at least to me).

Here is some more info on Brett Lithograph from my copy of the color explosion book on 19th century Lithograph. A lot of the info was in the link I posted earlier but some of it is new.

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I think that Fullgraff might have worked for Brett Lithograph is a possibility to consider.

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