T220 Silver - Uncut Edition

[Exhibitman]

Alas I won none of them; Greg is lucky I did not spot the first load or he'd have paid at least 5x what he spent.

I contacted the seller and he told me that someone from a major AH contacted him and told him they could be worth $5,000 each. I think that is wildly optimistic for anything except maybe the Donovan and Jim Corbett SSPs. An 8-card proof of each would exceed the known pop of finished cards. For the others, frankly, the $2K each that they were going for on eBay was a very strong price. That's the problem with these cards: thin interest. Extraordinary rarity but thin market. I used to own three of the four known uncut N310 Mayo strips. Cost me $2K to get them and I barely got my investment out after years of trying. Anything like this is a crap-shoot. I mean, we think they're unbelievably cool and valuable but does anyone else? It's a conundrum, especially when two or three dedicated bidders go to war, because you are not likely to get what you think these very rare and very obscure items are worth if you are out of the equation as a buyer. Now, if you're spending sub-$100 per item, you really can't lose much but once you get into the $1500-$2000 range, well, that's a pretty nice other card you're foregoing.

[G1911]

I can’t see the commons going that high, that seems an incredibly optimistic assessment. If anyone thinks they’re worth $5,000, please give me a call and your shipping address.

I don’t think there’s much of a maybe on the Donovan and, if it exists, the James J. Corbett. I’d be shocked if 8 Donovan’s, 2/3 of the pop, went for less than $5K on the open market properly listed. Though I hope I’m wrong, I’d love to get the Corbett too if it’s in the find and I could justify doing that sum; only 250% of a common panel.

[Exhibitman]

Here's the thing, though. They are not finished cards. No matter who they show or how unique, they are not part of the set and therefore of limited utility to a card collector. A premium item to be sure but not the world-killers one might think. $5,000 for a boxing card or card-like item is rarified territory, probably no more than a few dozen cards would draw that price. The actual cards of Donovan and Corbett might not top $5k at auction; I could see them pooping out around half of that. I've had this same issue with original art and proofs from other sets: they just don't sell for what they "should".

I think the seller made a mistake terminating the eBay auctions. I doubt they will net more consigning to an AH. I am certainly not a buyer at those price levels and you are not either, I suspect. That doesn't leave a whole heck of a lot of lunatics willing to spend like drunken sailors on these items.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Here's the thing, though. They are not finished cards. No matter who they show or how unique, they are not part of the set and therefore of limited utility to a card collector. A premium item to be sure but not the world-killers one might think. $5,000 for a boxing card or card-like item is rarified territory, probably no more than a few dozen cards would draw that price. The actual cards of Donovan and Corbett might not top $5k at auction; I could see them pooping out around half of that. I've had this same issue with original art and proofs from other sets: they just don't sell for what they "should".

I think the seller made a mistake terminating the eBay auctions. I doubt they will net more consigning to an AH. I am certainly not a buyer at those price levels and you are not either, I suspect. That doesn't leave a whole heck of a lot of lunatics willing to spend like drunken sailors on these items.

I don't normally compete at the higher tiers of the hobby; when it becomes about money it's not much fun. I have no idea what they 'should' go for. But I'm absolutely a buyer at those levels; the Beecher and Moore went to ~$2,000 because that was my and another bidders bid (who knows how high they were willing to go though; we were both over $2,200 on Dempsey when it got yanked and that was my placeholder). I'd happily pay $5K for the Corbett. The last Corbett went for like $1,750 before the juice and before the hobby explosion off memory. 8 pre-production examples for $5K would be a significant bargain in my eyes.

I'd be awfully shocked if the gentleman who bid at minimum $2,083 on Beecher would value the Corbett under $5,000. Corbett and Donovan, from their transactions I am aware of, are like ~100x a common cards price. Obviously that shrinks greatly in this price tier, form and situation, but I would be absolutely shocked if they netted less than 2.5x a common card in pre-production form.

As the $2K price was achieved with, the bidding suggests, only 3 people aware of what they actually were, I don't know if his decision was good or bad. It would seem unlikely he will lose a lot by yanking them. The only way he really loses is if it turns out only myself and the other bidder value them like this, and he consigns to an auction house that 1) the other bidder or myself does not see or 2) he picks one I have ethical qualms with and refuse to do business with for any item, which constitutes a lot of them. Otherwise, I don't see how he can lose, he'll likely have both of us competing again, but this time we won't be the only ones in the loop as they will be listed properly. On the other hand, I'm not sure there's much room to go up much more for the seller to recoup the increased fees charged by an auction house. We would need at least a third bidder to add a not insignificant percentage to our bids to make it much more profitable for the seller at the end of the day.

I really hope I am wrong and these aren't worth much and the other bidder disappears and decides he messed up, so that I can get them cheap and justify keeping them all to my grave. I'd rather get them all to display on my wall in a recreated sheet than have some expensive cardboard. I highly doubt I'm going to get any more than the 13 I have at this point after the Beecher and Moore results, though.

[Pat R]

Is it fair to assume the sheet was at minimum 34-36 inches wide?

[G1911]

We have:

3 bottom panels

3 top panels (one is clearly a corner).

3 panels x 4 cards x 2.5 inches = 30 inches, without the white margins.

Assuming all T220-1's are one sheet, which is not for sure yet, it would have to be about 34-36 inches at minimum.


For scorekeeping, we also have:
4 right panels (counting Jordan again, since he is obviously the top right corner)

0 left panels

9 panels that do not show clear evidence of being an edge, but as they are handcut (albeit pretty cleanly) some may have had the white frame cut off and thus cannot just be assumed to be interior panels.



A 5x5 layout of panels would be 16 edge panels, 9 interior panels, counting in my head. A different layout would probably be a sheet that either 1) didn't have all 25 cards or be 2) be very large.


I'm back home from vacation on Saturday to try and piece more together of the 13 I have access too to see what connects. Jackson and Lavigne vertically connect, Edwards and McGovern do horizontally.

[Pat R]

Thanks Greg. There is some information from that timeframe on possible sheet sizes used.

Full Obak sheet 31 x 23 1/2

18 card strip E91A approximately 27 inches

T206 plate scratches indicate a 34-36 inch sheet