Shoeless Joe Jackson Auto- Fake?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

https://thecollectorconnection.com/b...x?itemid=21487

"JSA Mistakenly identifies coach George Jendrus Anderson as HOF'er George "Sparky" Anderson who was only 14 years old in 1948 and 10 years away from his major league debut."

Of course if they have the wrong George Anderson how the hell did they authenticate the autograph?

If a data scientist who claims he does not know enough about the authentication space can give the thumbs up on the Jax then JSA surely can. After all, there should be room for human error....i.e. guessing or just taking a leap of faith based on a story or provenance.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

If a data scientist who claims he does not know enough about the authentication space can give the thumbs up on the Jax then JSA surely can. After all, there should be room for human error....i.e. guessing or just taking a leap of faith based on a story or provenance.

To be correct, they mistakenly say JSA wrongly identified Anderson. The link shows PSA/DNA to be the authentication culprit making the mistake based on the pictures of the item.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by rand1com

To be correct, they mistakenly say JSA wrongly identified Anderson. The link shows PSA/DNA to be the authentication culprit making the mistake based on the pictures of the item.

Crap I'm an idiot. My apologies to JSA. Will fix the auction listing for posterity and will ADD the apology to all of my posts in this thread dealing with this piece.

It's not even a Spence era PSA piece, don't know what I was looking at.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

If a data scientist who claims he does not know enough about the authentication space can give the thumbs up on the Jax then JSA surely can. After all, there should be room for human error....i.e. guessing or just taking a leap of faith based on a story or provenance.

Since you clearly care most about my opinion in this thread, allow me to correct it for you. As I stated above, by just looking at the autograph and photo, I think Peter's stance of remaining agnostic is the best position to take. Note that a position of agnosticism would prevent it from being authenticated. I only stated that I lean towards it likely being authentic, not that I think it definitely is. But in large part, my inclination to think it is more likely authentic than not has much to do with the fact that both PSA and JSA authenticated it. I trust their opinions more than I do the opinions of a handful of collectors on the internet despite the fact that I fully acknowledge and expect that the experts will offer incorrect opinions a fair percentage of the time.

Regardless, you should continue to ridicule and berate me. It's a good look. People love reading that stuff.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Since you clearly care most about my opinion in this thread, allow me to correct it for you. As I stated above, by just looking at the autograph and photo, I think Peter's stance of remaining agnostic is the best position to take. Note that a position of agnosticism would prevent it from being authenticated. I only stated that I lean towards it likely being authentic, not that I think it definitely is. But in large part, my inclination to think it is more likely authentic than not has much to do with the fact that both PSA and JSA authenticated it. I trust their opinions more than I do the opinions of a handful of collectors on the internet despite the fact that I fully acknowledge and expect that the experts will offer incorrect opinions a fair percentage of the time.

Regardless, you should continue to ridicule and berate me. It's a good look. People love reading that stuff.

When it comes to cards I like my own opinion on authenticity. Since, like you, I know next to nothing about the auto authentication space but know it is affiliated with the same inept and corrupt companies who slab tons of bad cards I do put weight into what a handful of collectors...collectively think...especially when what they think is well thought through and articulated. And in this case there is more than enough info having been provided that would have been enough for me to pass if I were in the market.

Ridiculing and berating? Nah you will know when I am doing that. Just bothered by your contrarian know it all attitude. I will try to do better.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Chase, it's not just a handful of collectors, it's experts like Ron Keurajian who have questioned the authenticity. I would tend to trust someone like him on this more than a company like PSA or JSA.

His credentials? the author of two volumes of “Baseball Hall of Fame Autographs: A Reference Guide."

Oh wait, Joe isn't in the Hall, never mind.

I believe someone, probably Thomas, mentioned that Richard Simon (not sure he still posts here) is also skeptical. He always impressed me from afar with his expertise.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

When it comes to cards I like my own opinion on authenticity. Since, like you, I know next to nothing about the auto authentication space but know it is affiliated with the same inept and corrupt companies who slab tons of bad cards I do put weight into what a handful of collectors...collectively think...especially when what they think is well thought through and articulated. And in this case there is more than enough info having been provided that would have been enough for me to pass if I were in the market.

Ridiculing and berating? Nah you will know when I am doing that. Just bothered by your contrarian know it all attitude. I will try to do better.

So, you prefer your own opinion over that of the experts when it comes to authenticating, despite admitting you "know next to nothing" about it. Got it. However, you do know enough to know that they are inept. After all, the interwebs told you so. Also, forum groupthink informs you of what opinions you ought to hold. Brilliant! Oh, and you think the case made above regarding the Jackson photo was ironclad, despite someone clearly having refuted nearly every argument proposed, one by one, with photo examples. You'll do well here. Keep up the good work!

Oh, and 'know-it-all' is hyphenated.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Snowman

So, you prefer your own opinion over that of the experts when it comes to authenticating, despite admitting you "know next to nothing" about it. Got it. However, you do know enough to know that they are inept. After all, the interwebs told you so. Also, forum groupthink informs you of what opinions you ought to hold. Brilliant! Oh, and you think the case made above regarding the Jackson photo was ironclad, despite someone clearly having refuted nearly every argument proposed, one by one, with photo examples. You'll do well here. Keep up the good work!

Oh, and 'know-it-all' is hyphenated.

No one has refuted any of the arguments. They just disagreed.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by rats60

No one has refuted any of the arguments. They just disagreed.

Lol. Even the guy who made the arguments above agreed that I refuted several of them with the examples I gave. Clearly, you didn't even read my post.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Lol. Even the guy who made the arguments above agreed that I refuted several of them with the examples I gave. Clearly, you didn't even read my post.

Clearly you didn't read his post. He said only two of your were even well stated. Then he pointed out how he disagreed with them. You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else is this thread. Acting like your opinion is the only correct one is not a good look.