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  #1  
Old 10-12-2021, 06:40 PM
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I don't think there is anyone who is stating that he also wrote Alexandria.
Right, but if they are the same hand as some experts have opined, that of course rules out Jackson.
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Old 10-12-2021, 06:54 PM
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Right, but if they are the same hand as some experts have opined, that of course rules out Jackson.
Hasn't the hobby deteriorated enough that the authentication on this one will be golden until the end of time? Seems there is always at least two buyers whose desire to own things far exceeds the desire to be certain the item is genuine.
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Old 10-12-2021, 06:56 PM
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Hasn't the hobby deteriorated enough that the authentication on this one will be golden until the end of time? Seems there is always at least two buyers whose desire to own things far exceeds the desire to be certain the item is genuine.
Yeah that's the power of third party authentication. It at least shifts the burden of proof back to the party claiming inauthentic.
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Old 10-12-2021, 07:46 PM
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Being written by the same person would certainly rule out ol Joe. What handwriting expert has made this claim?

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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Right, but if they are the same hand as some experts have opined, that of course rules out Jackson.
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Old 10-12-2021, 08:04 PM
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Ron Keurajian, the author of two volumes of “Baseball Hall of Fame Autographs: A Reference Guide” that also include signature analyses of players from the 1919 Chicago White Sox, said that there are “no genuine signed images of Jackson in existence.”

In its auction listing, Christie’s said the Jackson autograph is “the lone surviving example of any type.”

Keurajian said he was skeptical about the photograph’s authenticity.

“Here’s a guy who was illiterate, but he can write ‘Alexandria’ on the photograph?” Keurajian told Cox Media Group via telephone on Thursday night. “And for those who believe Frank Smith wrote ‘Alexandria’ on the photo, so, he wrote it in the same hand as Jackson’s? That seems highly unlikely.”
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Old 10-12-2021, 08:08 PM
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And from Thomas Saunders here, who obviously knows a great deal.


5. It seems very likely that the same hand wrote everything on that photo and Jackson 100% could not have done that.
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Old 10-12-2021, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
And from Thomas Saunders here, who obviously knows a great deal.


5. It seems very likely that the same hand wrote everything on that photo and Jackson 100% could not have done that.
If they were done by the same hand, my best guess would be Joe's wife. She could've replicated Joe's signature, and the "n" in "Alexandria" looks a lot like the "n" on the 1919 contract she signed for Joe. Not to mention, the odd "e" seen in both Joe's authentic and wife-reproduced sigs, and "Alexandria."
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Old 10-12-2021, 08:34 PM
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What is the reasoning arguing that they are in the same hand? Any idea? Signed at the same time is believable, but to my untrained eye the signature and the Alexandria line look totally different. I would also add that there appears to have been a lot more pressure (and therefore ink) applied in the Jackson auto than in the location and date - yet another thing that could be explained both ways, but a difference nonetheless.

One way to get at this would be to look through the albums for Frank Smith's writing --- perhaps when the balance of the Cleveland album makes it to Rhys we will be fortunate to see some of Smith's writing it in.

The Jacksons were married in 1908 so Mrs. Jackson may have been present, but there are a lot of differences between the wife-signed doc and Alexandria (the e and the a's really jump out).

Last edited by Jobu; 10-12-2021 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 10-12-2021, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobu View Post
What is the reasoning arguing that they are in the same hand? Any idea? Signed at the same time is believable, but to my untrained eye the signature and the Alexandria line look totally different. I would also add that there appears to have been a lot more pressure (and therefore ink) applied in the Jackson auto than in the location and date - yet another thing that could be explained both ways, but a difference nonetheless.

One way to get at this would be to look through the albums for Frank Smith's writing --- perhaps when the balance of the Cleveland album makes it to Rhys we will be fortunate to see some of Smith's writing it in.

The Jacksons were married in 1908 so Mrs. Jackson may have been present, but there are a lot of differences between the wife-signed doc and Alexandria (the e and the a's really jump out).
Hopefully Thomas can answer this at least for himself. I really am not sure.
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Old 10-12-2021, 09:00 PM
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The Jacksons were married in 1908 so Mrs. Jackson may have been present, but there are a lot of differences between the wife-signed doc and Alexandria (the e and the a's really jump out).
The signature is clearly either Joe's or someone (perhaps his wife) trying to make it look like Joe's, so most letters will be unnatural scrawls. On all of the authentic sigs, the final "n" is just a trailing line. But on some wife signed ones, it looks more like a wave, similar to the "n" in "Alexandria."

Since Joe apparently only began drawing his name after he met his wife, and since she signed things for him, it seems clear that the image Joe used to copy from was created by his wife. In other words, Joe's authentic signatures would be his best attempt to copy what his wife had written for him to memorize.

So, where we see differences between Joe's genuine signature and wife-signed things, the differences would be his wife's natural handwriting coming through. The wavy final "n" being the most prominent example.
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Old 10-12-2021, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
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If they were done by the same hand, my best guess would be Joe's wife. She could've replicated Joe's signature, and the "n" in "Alexandria" looks a lot like the "n" on the 1919 contract she signed for Joe. Not to mention, the odd "e" seen in both Joe's authentic and wife-reproduced sigs, and "Alexandria."
Somewhere I read her k's always looked like capital K, though. I also thought she did NOT have the odd e. Hard to keep it all straight.
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