Shoeless Joe Jackson Auto- Fake?

[drcy]

There may be new non-invasive ways to do it.

Determining age is a very significant test, because a forgery would be modern.

[SteveS]

Here's something interesting, although I'm not sure if it means anything other than sloppy work by one of the auction houses. In the Heritage link that Chad posted, they describe it as a "labored pencil signature." But in the Christie's description, they call it "boldly signed by Jackson in black fountain pen."

[packs]

Again, mentioning this only for timeline. In this SABR article, it says that Jackson signed his first professional contract with an X. I'm guessing the article is referring to Greenville in 1908. This photo is from 1911. So we know definitively that Joe Jackson could not write his name in 1908 and here is a photo with a pretty nice Joe Jackson just 3 years later. In fact, to me this photograph has one of the most fluid and well executed Jacksons of any I've seen, which again must have been signed shortly after he learned to write at all.

I think it's again important to know whether or not Joe Jackson could write his name in 1911. The earliest confirmed signature (on some kind of voucher) listed on PSA's site is from 1916.

[rand1com]

They give an opinion, no more, no less. It is not binding and they are not held responsible for mistakes. Read the form you sign when submitting your item and that will be clear. I personally don't like the signature and agree that if he could only place an "X" on his 1908 contract it is unlikely he could sign his name this well in 1911. Perhaps, the famous photographer left a note stating that he personally witnessed Jackson signing his photo. Who knows for sure but you can bet PSA/DNA knew this was an extremely valuable item whenever they authenticated it and you have to assume they had a good reason for opining that it is authentic.

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by rand1com

They give an opinion, no more, no less. Who knows for sure but you can bet PSA/DNA knew this was an extremely valuable item whenever they authenticated it and you have to assume they had a good reason for opining that it is authentic.

The good reason was not to make a big time / powerful AH mad at them and then the other motive is $$$$

[SteveS]

I believe he signed/Xed the 1908 Greenville contract shortly before he got married. As his wife helped him with signatures by setting out an example for him to copy, it's possible that he was able to sign something by 1911.

However, I read that when he and his teammates went to a restaurant, he couldn't read the menu, so he would wait for everyone else to order and then choose the same as one of them. If he was that embarrassed to let his teammates know that he was illiterate, why would he let a photographer know that he needed his wife's help to sign his name? It's possible that he signed it outside of the photographer's presence, and then his wife or the photographer added the place and date (I don't believe for one second that he could have written that). But it seems that he signed his name only when he felt it was legally necessary. Why was this photo important enough for him to sign? Maybe because in his rookie year of 1911 he didn't want to disappoint his teammates and be the only one not to sign his picture. Of course all this is speculation and proves nothing other than it COULD be legit. An analysis proving that the ink has been there since 1911 would be a big positive. But with what we know now, I would hesitate to join either of the 100% sure sides.

[Carter08]

I apologize if I missed this but does anyone know the expected return time on a $300 express submission?