1989 Fleer Randy Johnson #381 Marlboro Errors - 30 Years Later

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

Talked to the seller this morning, and he claims the card sold.

He reached out to me Saturday morning and said it was officially on the market for $15K OBO. Crazy.

insanity. where was he selling it? randy johnson black market site? didn't see on ebay.

[steve5838]

Awesome information and excited that another one of these turned up! Thank you Statfreak101 for the heads up on this. The week before last Statfreak101 told me about seeing this card raw in a FB group. He reached out to the person who posted the pic (a card shop owner) and found out "...it sounds like a guy brought in a collection from the 80s and 90s, and had 14 different 89 Fleer hand collated sets...and inside one of the sets was this card." I forwarded the message and picture of the ungraded card to Kevin and we both agreed that this looked exactly like our cards. I honestly spent the better part of that night trying to find the Facebook group on my own. Unfortunately, I am incompetent navigating FB and had no luck. I didn’t see the graded card until David posted the pic here. It is incredibly exciting. I wish I knew more. Were these some sort of first press run on the first day before a quality check process? Did some "fix" not make it on one of the lines at the start of the first day of production?

I agree with Hatorade that this new find reinforces the likelihood there are more of these out there. I believe this card has the staying power to be a very important card for those who love 1980s wax and crave something really scarce (of course I am biased). As I’ve mentioned before, this card and its many versions feel (at least to me) like an 80’s take on the parallels of modern collecting. The clear and blue versions are scarce in an absolute sense and hard to come by no matter how much you search – which is so much different from almost anything else from the junk wax era. Things are crazy now in all markets, but I think the fascination with this card will continue to grow as people who were kids in the 80s continue to build out their collections. I agree with Dylan that initial lack of demand for this card was likely due to lack of information on the versions and lack of knowledge about the relative scarcity. There is a learning curve for the card because searching "Randy Johnson Marlboro" on eBay returns tons of results… even though very few listings for the rarest versions come up (or stay up long).

In thinking about this card and its many versions I keep going back to ideas of scarcity and available substitutes. In person the clear one is super rare (very scare) and in person there is a dramatic difference between it and any of the tinted/obscured versions (lack of substitutes). The closest you can get is putting very intense lighting on the sign in a br2 (as I’ve done in several posts last year) but even then, not really and in person no one would ever confuse the two. I guess the other possible substitute is the magnet with a picture of the clear version someone is selling on eBay (no that isn’t me… but it keeps getting suggested to me). The blue tint ones are the same way – in that they stand out visually among others.

When I heard about this new clear one, I actually bought (2) unopened boxes of 1989 Fleer #83261 just on the off chance someone had picked up the card in a recent wax pull. Paid way too much but got caught up in the excitement! The absolute scarcity of the clear one makes it hard to assign a value. It’s no secret that I’ve toyed around with listing the card. Kevin can also vouch for me that over the last couple years I’ve offered him up to $15k for his clear one (sorry for being such a pest, Kevin). It is a strange card for sure. In that respect, I’m not surprised on the ask price. I read the book “The Card” last year and there are parallels to the chase for this and other urban legend cards (e.g., the 31 PSA graded examples of the T206 White Border Honus Wagner). Everyone has their own idea of what is valuable to them… my next "best" card in my collection is a 1990 Frank Thomas NNOF PSA 7.5. I would give that up in a heartbeat for even a PSA 4 of a clear Marlboro card.

At the end of the day definitely take it all with a grain of salt as these are just my two cents. I have no idea why this card is still such a fascination to me but love the ride.

Steve

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by steve5838

Awesome information and excited that another one of these turned up! Thank you Statfreak101 for the heads up on this. The week before last Statfreak101 told me about seeing this card raw in a FB group. He reached out to the person who posted the pic (a card shop owner) and found out "...it sounds like a guy brought in a collection from the 80s and 90s, and had 14 different 89 Fleer hand collated sets...and inside one of the sets was this card." I forwarded the message and picture of the ungraded card to Kevin and we both agreed that this looked exactly like our cards. I honestly spent the better part of that night trying to find the Facebook group on my own. Unfortunately, I am incompetent navigating FB and had no luck. I didn’t see the graded card until David posted the pic here. It is incredibly exciting. I wish I knew more. Were these some sort of first press run on the first day before a quality check process? Did some "fix" not make it on one of the lines at the start of the first day of production?

I agree with Hatorade that this new find reinforces the likelihood there are more of these out there. I believe this card has the staying power to be a very important card for those who love 1980s wax and crave something really scarce (of course I am biased). As I’ve mentioned before, this card and its many versions feel (at least to me) like an 80’s take on the parallels of modern collecting. The clear and blue versions are scarce in an absolute sense and hard to come by no matter how much you search – which is so much different from almost anything else from the junk wax era. Things are crazy now in all markets, but I think the fascination with this card will continue to grow as people who were kids in the 80s continue to build out their collections. I agree with Dylan that initial lack of demand for this card was likely due to lack of information on the versions and lack of knowledge about the relative scarcity. There is a learning curve for the card because searching "Randy Johnson Marlboro" on eBay returns tons of results… even though very few listings for the rarest versions come up (or stay up long).

In thinking about this card and its many versions I keep going back to ideas of scarcity and available substitutes. In person the clear one is super rare (very scare) and in person there is a dramatic difference between it and any of the tinted/obscured versions (lack of substitutes). The closest you can get is putting very intense lighting on the sign in a br2 (as I’ve done in several posts last year) but even then, not really and in person no one would ever confuse the two. I guess the other possible substitute is the magnet with a picture of the clear version someone is selling on eBay (no that isn’t me… but it keeps getting suggested to me). The blue tint ones are the same way – in that they stand out visually among others.

When I heard about this new clear one, I actually bought (2) unopened boxes of 1989 Fleer #83261 just on the off chance someone had picked up the card in a recent wax pull. Paid way too much but got caught up in the excitement! The absolute scarcity of the clear one makes it hard to assign a value. It’s no secret that I’ve toyed around with listing the card. Kevin can also vouch for me that over the last couple years I’ve offered him up to $15k for his clear one (sorry for being such a pest, Kevin). It is a strange card for sure. In that respect, I’m not surprised on the ask price. I read the book “The Card” last year and there are parallels to the chase for this and other urban legend cards (e.g., the 31 PSA graded examples of the T206 White Border Honus Wagner). Everyone has their own idea of what is valuable to them… my next "best" card in my collection is a 1990 Frank Thomas NNOF PSA 7.5. I would give that up in a heartbeat for even a PSA 4 of a clear Marlboro card.

At the end of the day definitely take it all with a grain of salt as these are just my two cents. I have no idea why this card is still such a fascination to me but love the ride.

Steve

I can't help but agree with this post. If I could "like" it, I most certainly would.

If I ever end up pulling one of these out of a pack, I certainly hope someone is there with me to catch me when I fall over!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

I can't help but agree with this post. If I could "like" it, I most certainly would.

If I ever end up pulling one of these out of a pack, I certainly hope someone is there with me to catch me when I fall over!

+1 it is a great post.

There should definitely be more out there some place. I wonder if there was ever/is a no tint at all version.

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 it is a great post.

There should definitely be more out there some place. I wonder if there was ever/is a no tint at all version.

This is why if at all possible, it would be super cool to get someone from the Fleer company/plant that would remember ANYTHING about this card.

And of course the FF Ripken, too.

[steve5838]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 it is a great post.

There should definitely be more out there some place. I wonder if there was ever/is a no tint at all version.

Thanks! My guess is that this is the no tint at all version. In person I can't see any tint on mine over the sign. I think the sign background isn't completely white due to some shadowing (or distortion due to sunlight or changing image) on the LCD (or whatever it is) screen. However, up close I don't see any film of tint color over the sign like there is on the other versions. I think the rectangle around the sign where the color goes from dark red or off white to black just defines the dimensions of the LCD screen.

[Hatorade]

Originally Posted by steve5838

Thanks! My guess is that this is the no tint at all version. In person I can't see any tint on mine over the sign. I think the sign background isn't completely white due to some shadowing (or distortion due to sunlight or changing image) on the LCD (or whatever it is) screen. However, up close I don't see any film of tint color over the sign like there is on the other versions. I think the rectangle around the sign where the color goes from dark red or off white to black just defines the dimensions of the LCD screen.

In post #87 you have a very sharp closeup image of the your clear version next to a blue version. It almost appears that there is some very light blueish tinting in that image over the white part of the ad. Some of the other photos of the other clear cards seem to show some light discoloration in that area too. That isn't evident with the card in hand?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Hatorade

In post #87 you have a very sharp closeup image of the your clear version next to a blue version. It almost appears that there is some very light blueish tinting in that image over the white part of the ad. Some of the other photos of the other clear cards seem to show some light discoloration in that area too. That isn't evident with the card in hand?

To me it looks to have a few areas of red tint. I can't remember who but one of the owners of one sent me some great scans and I noticed the very small amount of red spots on it also.

I do know these card are next to impossible to get a great pic/scan of, at least for me any way.

As for being rare what is the current known blue tint count?

Back when I was hoarding them the green scribbles seemed to be the rarest. Now there seems to be a lot more of them around. To me there was 3 different green scribble versions. I think I came up with around 18-20 different versions total. The only new one I have seen since then is the blue tint.

The 89 Fleer set had some great errors. The Boggs no dot is my favorite and seems to be in the silly rare category.

[steve5838]

Originally Posted by Hatorade

In post #87 you have a very sharp closeup image of the your clear version next to a blue version. It almost appears that there is some very light blueish tinting in that image over the white part of the ad. Some of the other photos of the other clear cards seem to show some light discoloration in that area too. That isn't evident with the card in hand?

I don't know if all of the pictures show up clearly enough on this site. So you can better see my clear card I just posted a pic on mySlabs. For reference I also posted one of my blue ones. I like that site because it lets you have very high definition images. I'm not seriously in the market to sell either of these at any reasonable price (and I know you have higher graded blue ones that I do) but the site makes you include some price for a card to show up.

Here is the link to cards I have up (I'm not sure how to get a link for one particular card):
myslabs.to/woodstock2

In person the background of the clear sign has a patchwork of subtle colors in it. It reminds me of some of the old laptop screens or even TVs. I agree there is some light distortion but believe it was part of the original photo of RJ in front of the sign and not after-the-fact tint. Maybe it has to do with the refresh rates of the older electronic billboard signage. I remember as a kid trying to take pictures of things on a TV or laptop and the pictures would show up with these strange color streams. This reminds me of that. To my eyes there is some light pinkish red, some yellowish white, and some bluish green. In the blue version the top of the cowboy's hat is part in and part out of the layer of blue tint. I don't see this on my clear one. In the clear version the entire cowboy's hat appears to me to be un-tinted. Even looking at the br2 one I posted on mySlabs (PSA #47414199) when you zoom in there is a distinct horizontal transition line that cuts across the top of the cowboy's hat that isn't there as far as I can see on the clear one. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be so that is why I put the pics up so you can judge for yourself. I hope this helps.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

I can't help but agree with this post. If I could "like" it, I most certainly would.

If I ever end up pulling one of these out of a pack, I certainly hope someone is there with me to catch me when I fall over!

Ummm, no offense. But they need to catch the card and let you bounce.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by Statfreak101

I can't help but agree with this post. If I could "like" it, I most certainly would.

My sentiments exactly.

[Athos01]

Excellent write-up Steve, I 100% agree with everything you said in there. These cards are unbelievably rare with the clear Marlboro, as now we know of only 3 clear versions. The Thomas NNOF gets all the pub; however, this card is far more scarce than that. Hopefully at some point, folks will realize that.

I am anxious to hear what the RJ looks like if you end up opening one of your very early Fleer boxes. Those are among the earliest date codes I've ever seen, and any RJ in the box will most certainly be some type of Marlboro version.

As Dylan mentioned, these cards went through so many changes in such a short period of time, it puts all the Ripken changes to shame. This is what makes '89 Fleer so fun to collect though, the thought of hitting one of these ultra-rare '89 Fleer cards from a set which can be considered anything but rare.

Not to take anything away from the Johnson cards, but those checklists with positions on front are incredibly scarce too. While nobody cares much, they are darn near impossible to find.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by Athos01

Excellent write-up Steve, I 100% agree with everything you said in there. These cards are unbelievably rare with the clear Marlboro, as now we know of only 3 clear versions. The Thomas NNOF gets all the pub; however, this card is far more scarce than that. Hopefully at some point, folks will realize that.

I am anxious to hear what the RJ looks like if you end up opening one of your very early Fleer boxes. Those are among the earliest date codes I've ever seen, and any RJ in the box will most certainly be some type of Marlboro version.

As Dylan mentioned, these cards went through so many changes in such a short period of time, it puts all the Ripken changes to shame. This is what makes '89 Fleer so fun to collect though, the thought of hitting one of these ultra-rare '89 Fleer cards from a set which can be considered anything but rare.

Not to take anything away from the Johnson cards, but those checklists with positions on front are incredibly scarce too. While nobody cares much, they are darn near impossible to find.

I believe that it has been confirmed several times over that the cases, especially mid November dates, contain a variety of correction types (obviously excluding one with a clear...) ranging from slight tint to boxed signs. Has this changed or has new info come up? I don't see nearly as much 1989 Fleer broken as I did last summer.

[Athos01]

That's absolutely correct Dylan. I believe all the Johnson cards went through their changes long before the Ripken FF was ever first "corrected". Odds are there must be more clear versions out there, and they should be in the earliest dated boxes. I have opened a bunch of early Fleer, and different Johnson versions definitely appeared in the same case, similar to the Ripkens. The problem? The prices on old wax has skyrocketed, and at some point in the last 5 years, the amount of '89 Fleer unopened has dropped dramatically, despite the fact it was printed to the moon.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by Athos01

That's absolutely correct Dylan. I believe all the Johnson cards went through their changes long before the Ripken FF was ever first "corrected". Odds are there must be more clear versions out there, and they should be in the earliest dated boxes. I have opened a bunch of early Fleer, and different Johnson versions definitely appeared in the same case, similar to the Ripkens. The problem? The prices on old wax has skyrocketed, and at some point in the last 5 years, the amount of '89 Fleer unopened has dropped dramatically, despite the fact it was printed to the moon.

Just the fact that sealed cases from the first two weeks of production made it this far is pretty amazing to me (as a junk wax enthusiast). I couldn't believe the amount of them getting posted for sale last summer.

So it is my understanding that Fleer had multiple correction types (plates) going simultaneously pretty much from day 1 (or day 2, I suppose) while altering/adjusting them up until the January change over to solid blackout background, correct? So theoretically, a clear version could possibly be pulled form a case containing some other correction types.

Has anyone locked down the first date of production?

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage

Just the fact that sealed cases from the first two weeks of production made it this far is pretty amazing to me (as a junk wax enthusiast). I couldn't believe the amount of them getting posted for sale last summer.

So it is my understanding that Fleer had multiple correction types (plates) going simultaneously pretty much from day 1 (or day 2, I suppose) while altering/adjusting them up until the January change over to solid blackout background, correct? So theoretically, a clear version could possibly be pulled form a case containing some other correction types.

Has anyone locked down the first date of production?

Dylan, I believe I have. But I am keeping that information off the public forum...so if you want to chat more, get a hold of me.

Personally, I have owned multiple 8326 cases (both sealed & unsealed) and ripped a ton of that run...it is very similar to the other case runs where the Johnson version varies. Pretty crazy, and I still have some FASC boxes of these in my possession.

You just have to think there are more than 3 of these out there - just by chance. How they are out there, it is anyone's guess. Whether they are still sitting in unopened packs, or someone has one in their collection that they aren't even aware of, or in hand collated set...who knows. But I am 100% certain there are more out there.

My hope is that with the finding of this latest one, it would possibly bring a couple more out in the wild. We will see!

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by hockeyhockey

insanity. where was he selling it? randy johnson black market site? didn't see on ebay.

Be careful, if you Google "black market randy johnson" you might find something other than what you're looking for...