Small Traditions LLC/SCANDAL UPDATE

[Snowman]

If you guys were to guess what percentage above-average selling prices that PWCC and Probstein get for their auctions, what would you guess?

For example, say a card usually sells for $500 on average, does it sell for a 20% premium at PWCC at $600, or a 5% premium at $525, or does it sell for 100% premium and go for double at $1000? What do you think the "PWCC and/or Probstein effect is"?

<5%
5-10%
10-25%
25-50%
>50%

[Peter_Spaeth]

All PWCC/Probstein cards are not the same. There are at least two distinct groups, those consigned by collectors and smaller dealers, and those consigned by card doctors/larger dealers. I would bet the stats are very different for those two groups.

[aro13]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

All PWCC/Probstein cards are not the same. There are at least two distinct groups, those consigned by collectors and smaller dealers, and those consigned by card doctors/larger dealers. I would bet the stats are very different for those two groups.

This statement is very accurate in my view. PWCC cards did sell for incredibly high prices relative to other cards of the same grade. However, if you look at VCP prices, often PWCC cards go for extremely low prices. Not every card is shilled and prices were lower in some cases because people didn't bid and were afraid they might get run up.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by aro13

This statement is very accurate in my view. PWCC cards did sell for incredibly high prices relative to other cards of the same grade. However, if you look at VCP prices, often PWCC cards go for extremely low prices. Not every card is shilled and prices were lower in some cases because people didn't bid and were afraid they might get run up.

At one point, as I wanted to see for myself, I consigned some decent cards including a nice Jim Brown rookie. Too small a sample to mean much, but not one went high and several went really low.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At one point, as I wanted to see for myself, I consigned some decent cards including a nice Jim Brown rookie. Too small a sample to mean much, but not one went high and several went really low.

Careful you'll now be labeled in the "just sour grapes" bunch.


Eyeballs and "safe" packaging account for the higher prices.


I can count dozens of times when I've seen an inexperienced seller list a great card, and it sells for fair market.


My guess is the attempt at asking for a "value above the norm" would be countered with " but all the buyers are avoid +/- 10% sales tax due to the vault. So there's that excuse on the table

[drcy]

I think you look at trends rather than specific sales.

It seemed obvious that there was broad shilling going on at MastroNet because of the unusual pricing (a result of bidding) throughout the auction. The bidding/pricing patterns throughout the auction were unlike other auctions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by aro13

This statement is very accurate in my view. PWCC cards did sell for incredibly high prices relative to other cards of the same grade. However, if you look at VCP prices, often PWCC cards go for extremely low prices. Not every card is shilled and prices were lower in some cases because people didn't bid and were afraid they might get run up.

I think overall most cards probably weren't shilled, or altered. The problem is how, as a bidder, do you know the difference if you're interested in a particular card? For a while I could actually ask Brent and our little shorthand was, is this a collector or dealer card? And he would tell me. But he eventually decided he didn't want to do that any more -- maybe he was sick of my posts lol.