Babe Ruth $$$

[jingram058]

No one really cares. I still take Waite Hoyt and his publisher over you. You don't know everything. But you certainly think you do. If I am an imbecile, so be it. Don't care.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Before I started reading all the comments in this thread, which resulted in the silly name calling that is all too common on this forum, I was also going to venture the 100,000 figure for signed baseballs. That's far from a small number, and just think of all the other signed material. Also, I am speaking only of single-signed balls, not team or multi-signed. Signed cards were barely collected in Ruth's day, so I won't even venture a guess on how many Goudeys he may have signed, among other cards.

We hear lots of stories of players signing which are always inflated with hyperbole. A couple of far smaller examples:

King Kelly was arguably the game's first superstar. The earliest story I know which involves a player signing autographs recounts Kelly signing for crowds of kids. I'm not saying it didn't happen, as I'm far from 150 years old, but shouldn't at least a nice handful of autographed album pages have survived? Autograph books were the preferred medium, and as we've seen, tons of them have survived from Kelly's era. Perhaps not teeming with baseball autographs, but what does that tell us?

What about the story in TGOTT of Bugs Raymond trading autographed balls for drinks? Remember, like the Waite Hoyt story, this one came directly from the mouth of his contemporary. Meaningless. Again, logic would dictate a fraction of these having survived the test of time, especially if given to an adult who might have occasion to take better care of it than a child. I suppose one could argue with Prohibition being just around the corner, each and every one of those signed balls was disposed of with the closing of taverns nationwide. Conversely, shouldn't then have some of them have been packed away in boxes shortly after they were signed, therefore even preserving at least one (in decent condition to boot)? Nah. Signed balls were not en vogue in Raymond's era. My best hypothesis is that yes, he did trade baseballs for drinks but didn't sign them. I could see him telling a tall tale about how each ball won a crucial game, etc. That makes so much more sense, doesn't it?

[mr2686]

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

[Snapolit1]

If Babe Ruth signed a million balls, guys not named Babe Ruth signed about 500,000 Babe Ruth balls.

Would be interesting to know what Babe was really like. In my experience, guys who drink as heavily as he reportedly did generally are a little difficult to be around fulltime and sustain relationships with. And combined with his huge ego, Babe was no doubt a difficult guy, despite all the rosy stories about how "fun" and generous he was. I suspect Babe fell somewhere on the spectrum near Jackie Gleason.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If Babe Ruth signed a million balls, guys not named Babe Ruth signed about 500,000 Babe Ruth balls.

Would be interesting to know what Babe was really like. In my experience, guys who drink as heavily as he reportedly did generally are a little difficult to be around fulltime and sustain relationships with. And combined with his huge ego, Babe was no doubt a difficult guy, despite all the rosy stories about how "fun" and generous he was. I suspect Babe fell somewhere on the spectrum near Jackie Gleason.

I was lucky to have known many players who played with and against Ruth. Not one of them mentioned him being difficult at all. In fact, they were all in admiration, if not full-on awe of him. Your theory has great validity and had to be true at times, but it was never confirmed by the first-hand sources I knew. He treated all of them with the storied kindness and generosity that you'd think was a bit exaggerated. I'll take them at their word. If any of them ever felt mistreated or slighted by Ruth, it would have undoubtedly come up in conversation. I'm sure that a lot of the difficulties you envision were reserved more for higher-ups than other players--especially younger, lesser players. As we know, Ruth had a soft spot for underdogs. Through the combination of his ego and performance, Ruth had the enviably unique position of not having to worry about any young upstart taking his job until his final season as a Yankee. He could afford to be nice. (Even during 1925, I surmise that his ego gave him the assurance that things would blow over, as they did.)

The vast majority of the players I knew were younger than Ruth and came along after the phenomenon and legend was already well established. Naturally, this type of player would be in awe of him. Simultaneously, if Ruth burst their bubble of what they thought he would be before meeting him, they'd have piped up. None ever did. Only good things. I even befriended a couple of guys who were more Ruth's age and didn't hold him in such an exalted light. They still spoke of the same qualities in Ruth, but with less reverence, as they hadn't grown up dreaming of being Babe Ruth!

[Snapolit1]

That's really cool. Thanks for sharing that insight.

As you imply, how Babe treated younger up and coming guys later in his career might not have been indicative of how he treated rivals and other who were in the spotlight at the same time. Don't mean to suggest he was a bad guy, as many reports were he was not at all and generally a good soul, but even good souls can be a real handful when they are boozing big time.





=BillyCox3;2146610]I was lucky to have known many players who played with and against Ruth. Not one of them mentioned him being difficult at all. In fact, they were all in admiration, if not full-on awe of him. Your theory has great validity and had to be true at times, but it was never confirmed by the first-hand sources I knew. He treated all of them with the storied kindness and generosity that you'd think was a bit exaggerated. I'll take them at their word. If any of them ever felt mistreated or slighted by Ruth, you'd think it would have come up in conversation. I'm sure that a lot of the difficulties you envision were reserved more for higher-ups than other players--especially younger, lesser players. As we know, Ruth had a soft spot for underdogs.

The vast majority of the players I knew were younger than Ruth and came along after the phenomenon and legend was already well established. Naturally, this type of player would be in awe of him. Simultaneously, if Ruth burst their bubble of what they thought he would be before meeting him, they'd have piped up. None ever did. Only good things. I even befriended a couple of guys who were more Ruth's age and didn't hold him in such an exalted light. They still spoke of the same qualities in Ruth, but with less reverence, as they hadn't grown up dreaming of being Babe Ruth![/QUOTE]

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If Babe Ruth signed a million balls, guys not named Babe Ruth signed about 500,000 Babe Ruth balls.

Would be interesting to know what Babe was really like. In my experience, guys who drink as heavily as he reportedly did generally are a little difficult to be around fulltime and sustain relationships with. And combined with his huge ego, Babe was no doubt a difficult guy, despite all the rosy stories about how "fun" and generous he was. I suspect Babe fell somewhere on the spectrum near Jackie Gleason.

So how many balls did Jackie Gleason sign?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

So how many balls did Jackie Gleason sign?

They do exist!

[maniac_73]

Since we're on the point of player exaggerations, I don't believe Wade Boggs drank 107 beers in a day

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

So how many balls did Jackie Gleason sign?

Highballs or baseballs? I don't think there has ever been a more prodigious autograph signer in the game than Cal Ripken; he might have signed 1M times for his fans.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Highballs or baseballs? I don't think there has ever been a more prodigious autograph signer in the game than Cal Ripken; he might have signed 1M times for his fans.

Bob Feller and Bobby Doerr would like a word.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If Babe Ruth signed a million balls, guys not named Babe Ruth signed about 500,000 Babe Ruth balls.

Would be interesting to know what Babe was really like. In my experience, guys who drink as heavily as he reportedly did generally are a little difficult to be around fulltime and sustain relationships with. And combined with his huge ego, Babe was no doubt a difficult guy, despite all the rosy stories about how "fun" and generous he was. I suspect Babe fell somewhere on the spectrum near Jackie Gleason.

Check out "Babe, the legend comes to life" by Robert Creamer. Might give you a better feel for what he was like.

[obcbobd]

i would think he was probably the most beloved athlete ever. No saint, but that was part of the appeal.



Was There Ever a Guy Like Ruth?
By John Kieran 1927

You may sing your song of the good old days till the phantom cows come home;
You may dig up glorious deeds of yore from many a dusty tome;
You may rise to tell of Rube Waddell and the way he buzzed them through,
And top it all with the great fastball that Rusie’s rooters knew.
You may rant of Brouthers, Keefe and Ward and half a dozen more;
You may quote by rote from the record book in a way that I deplore;
You may rave, I say, till the break of day, but the truth remains the truth:
From “One Old Cat” to the last “At Bat”, was there ever a guy like Ruth?

He can start and go, he can catch and throw, he can field with the very best.
He’s the Prince of Ash and the King of Crash, and that’s not an idle jest.
He can hit that ball o’er the garden wall, high up and far away,
Beyond the aftermost picket lines where the fleet-foot fielders stray.
He’s the Bogey Man of the pitching clan and he clubs ’em soon and late;
He has manned his guns and hit home runs from here to the Golden Gate;
With vim and verve he has walloped the curve from Texas to Duluth,
Which is no small task, and I beg to ask: Was there ever a guy like Ruth?

You may rise and sing till the rafters ring that sad and sorrowful strain:
“They strive and fail–it’s the old, old tale; they never come back again.”
Yes, it’s in the dope, when they hit the slope they’re off for the shadowed vale,
But the great, big Bam with the circuit slam came back on the uphill trail;
Came back with cheers from the drifted years where the best of them go down;
Came back once more with a record score to wear a brighter crown.
My voice may be loud above the crowd and my words just a bit uncouth,
But I’ll stand and shout till the last man’s out: There was never a guy like Ruth!

[luciobar1980]

Guys, there's no way in HELL he signed 1 million balls. C'mon. Do you know how much 1 million is!?!? haha

[Exhibitman]

It's been mentioned in a couple of threads already but Memory Lane has an insane Ruth auction up right now. And no, I do not have any cards in there, just enjoyed the eye candy and wanted to pass it along.

[nineunder71]

Bob, you the man

This is an awesome post, thanks for sharing

Originally Posted by obcbobd

i would think he was probably the most beloved athlete ever. No saint, but that was part of the appeal.



Was There Ever a Guy Like Ruth?
By John Kieran 1927

You may sing your song of the good old days till the phantom cows come home;
You may dig up glorious deeds of yore from many a dusty tome;
You may rise to tell of Rube Waddell and the way he buzzed them through,
And top it all with the great fastball that Rusie’s rooters knew.
You may rant of Brouthers, Keefe and Ward and half a dozen more;
You may quote by rote from the record book in a way that I deplore;
You may rave, I say, till the break of day, but the truth remains the truth:
From “One Old Cat” to the last “At Bat”, was there ever a guy like Ruth?

He can start and go, he can catch and throw, he can field with the very best.
He’s the Prince of Ash and the King of Crash, and that’s not an idle jest.
He can hit that ball o’er the garden wall, high up and far away,
Beyond the aftermost picket lines where the fleet-foot fielders stray.
He’s the Bogey Man of the pitching clan and he clubs ’em soon and late;
He has manned his guns and hit home runs from here to the Golden Gate;
With vim and verve he has walloped the curve from Texas to Duluth,
Which is no small task, and I beg to ask: Was there ever a guy like Ruth?

You may rise and sing till the rafters ring that sad and sorrowful strain:
“They strive and fail–it’s the old, old tale; they never come back again.”
Yes, it’s in the dope, when they hit the slope they’re off for the shadowed vale,
But the great, big Bam with the circuit slam came back on the uphill trail;
Came back with cheers from the drifted years where the best of them go down;
Came back once more with a record score to wear a brighter crown.
My voice may be loud above the crowd and my words just a bit uncouth,
But I’ll stand and shout till the last man’s out: There was never a guy like Ruth!