Hey, pennant guys

[MK]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Very cool Cubs WGN 75th anniversary pennant just sold on eBay, rare color version. Mike, I think you have this already? … did anyone here win it?

Greg,
I didn’t have that version but did win it. I believe I am only missing one other version now.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by MK

Greg,
I didn’t have that version but did win it. I believe I am only missing one other version now.

Very impressive Mike! Love all the variations. Which one are you missing?

I think I've seen an orange felt version with black graphics?

[ooo-ribay]

A pennant I’m waiting for (nothing thrilling) got within a couple of miles and was U-turned to Florida. Looks like it made it back…for now.

[baseball tourist]

Noticed this one from a seller on line. Not sure that I’ve seen this Tigers version before?

[MK]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Very impressive Mike! Love all the variations. Which one are you missing?

I think I've seen an orange felt version with black graphics?

I’m not talking about different colors when I say different versions. Each of these five have differences in design. Most are obvious, but if you notice the black and orange does not say “Wrigley Field” but the red one does. Here is the one different version I have seen but don’t own. There could be more as WGN seemed to go crazy with this particular design.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by MK

Greg,
I didn’t have that version but did win it. I believe I am only missing one other version now.

Great group of pennants, Mike!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by baseball tourist

Noticed this one from a seller on line. Not sure that I’ve seen this Tigers version before?

Chris, it’s a fairly tough one, and also very cool, the tiger has a pastel look to it. The Tigers have the best pennants by far and certain the most variability as far as Briggs/Tiger Stadium versions. Here is a pic of 10 different Trench and the two dates ones I believe are WGN. … There’s another Trench I don’t have, with a Tiger that looks like Tony from the Frosted Flakes box …

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Great group of pennants, Mike!

Agreed Great Group of pennants Mike

And this thread is a Forever Thread of amazing pennants and amazing displays

Getting me tempted to take the Pennant Plunge

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

A pennant I’m waiting for (nothing thrilling) got within a couple of miles and was U-turned to Florida. Looks like it made it back…for now.

You sure you didn't order a Yo Yo? Boomerang maybe?

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by baseball tourist

Noticed this one from a seller on line. Not sure that I’ve seen this Tigers version before?

Cool Pennant. I think it dates to the 1950s. There's also a red variation.

[MK]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Agreed Great Group of pennants Mike

And this thread is a Forever Thread of amazing pennants and amazing displays

Getting me tempted to take the Pennant Plunge

Thanks Jeffrey. Come on in, the water great! Just make sure you have lots of wall space. 😂

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

And this thread is a Forever Thread of amazing pennants and amazing displays

It is, but things seem to be slowing down.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by MK

Thanks Jeffrey. Come on in, the water great! Just make sure you have lots of wall space. 😂

I think I will.

But for now keeping within my collections
So I will focus on pre 1930 to start

Probably with the 1916 pennants that includes Joe jackson

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Cool Pennant. I think it dates to the 1950s. There's also a red variation.

I recently picked up a purple one of these (which I believe to be the rarest color). It's a super cool pennant in-person, and one of the tougher of their many Briggs Stadium variations.

Greg:
Do you happen to have an image of the "Tony the Tiger" version?

Great stuff, everyone!

[perezfan]

Post #69 within this thread contains what I believe to be the rarest of all Tiger "Stadium" Pennants. The image was posted by the great pennant collector Mike Hoevet prior to his passing away. Mike beat me to it at The National about 9-10 years ago.

RIP Mike.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I recently picked up a purple one of these (which I believe to be the rarest color). It's a super cool pennant in-person, and one of the tougher of their many Briggs Stadium variations.

Greg:
Do you happen to have an image of the "Tony the Tiger" version?

Great stuff, everyone!

Mark, yes, here it is. There are white stadium pennants, too, which seem to have been made from mid 60s into the 70s. And a bunch of 40s from what seems like WGN, as is (I think) the one from post #69.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Mark, yes, here it is. There are white stadium pennants, too, which seem to have been made from mid 60s into the 70s. And a bunch of 40s from what seems like WGN, as is (I think) the one from post #69.

That's GRRRRRREAT!

It does look like Tony. Since it's not really a "toughie", I am guessing you either can't make room for it or just don't want it?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

That's GRRRRRREAT!

It does look like Tony. Since it's not really a "toughie", I am guessing you either can't make room for it or just don't want it?

I’d like to get it if it comes along, but yeah I’m really running out of room. Nine tubs filled now. I’m thinking of limiting myself to just those that would be wall worthy.

My favorite is the big tiger with his arm around Briggs. A real beauty.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Post #69 within this thread contains what I believe to be the rarest of all Tiger "Stadium" Pennants. The image was posted by the great pennant collector Mike Hoevet prior to his passing away. Mike beat me to it at The National about 9-10 years ago.

RIP Mike.

What became of Mike’s pennants?

[thetahat]

So I still have this unhealthy obsession with the 1969 stamped cloth ASCO pennants. Finally got this Cubs version, in general not too hard to find in felt and undated but this is the first white one on cloth that I have seen with the date. Also have the red version.

The Cubs and Twins are the only teams I know with multiple colors. The Cubs also have those cool “Cub Power” picture pennants in both white and red, also by ASCO.

I have the Dodgers and Expos but in poor condition. Still need the super-rare Giants and have never seen the A’s in cloth.

In my opinion, this series was the swan song for pennants.

[thetahat]

That being said, my next project is to complete a set of 1960 and 1961 team picture pennants. Many of the 1960s have felt graphics which is cool. Of course not every team has such pennants (no Cubs, Red Sox, Giants, Senators).

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

That being said, my next project is to complete a set of 1960 and 1961 team picture pennants. Many of the 1960s have felt graphics which is cool. Of course not every team has such pennants (no Cubs, Red Sox, Giants, Senators).

I love the team and photo pennants too. I'm not targeting a specific run but I'm getting them when I can. I guess I can look forward to being the underbidder to you Greg. I'm waiting for these two to arrive soon. Not the rarest items but I love the graphics.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I love the team and photo pennants too. I'm not targeting a specific run but I'm getting them when I can. I guess I can look forward to being the underbidder to you Greg. I'm waiting for these two to arrive soon. Not the rarest items but I love the graphics.

Gary, those are great, the white Red Sox is especially rare. Both of them are ASCO/Button House.

[UKCardGuy]

Thanks Greg. I just read the history of ASCO (and Button House) at Pennant Fever - Great read! (https://pennantfever.weebly.com/blog/asco-inc-winona-mn)

It shows the Banks Cub Power (#1 in the attached photo) is made by Button House/ASCO. Are all the rest of the pennants in the photo also made by ASCO/Button House? The one I'm least certain about it #6.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Gary, those are great, the white Red Sox is especially rare. Both of them are ASCO/Button House.

Agree that those are great. The Conigliaro is less than full size, is it not? I noticed the team pennant has the same "M" we've seen before. I'm not sure if Kyle or anyone else ever nailed that down...

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I love the team and photo pennants too. I'm not targeting a specific run but I'm getting them when I can. I guess I can look forward to being the underbidder to you Greg. I'm waiting for these two to arrive soon. Not the rarest items but I love the graphics.

I'm wondering Gary if, being based in London, you are using the same avenues as your stateside brethren for finding and buying pennants...i.e. primarily eBay? Since I only search for Giants, I never see these other beauties!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Thanks Greg. I just read the history of ASCO (and Button House) at Pennant Fever - Great read! (https://pennantfever.weebly.com/blog/asco-inc-winona-mn)

It shows the Banks Cub Power (#1 in the attached photo) is made by Button House/ASCO. Are all the rest of the pennants in the photo also made by ASCO/Button House? The one I'm least certain about it #6.

Wow!!! Really love #3. Yes I think all of them are ASCO/BH including #6. Gifts love those Cubs floating head team pictures …

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I'm wondering Gary if, being based in London, you are using the same avenues as your stateside brethren for finding and buying pennants...i.e. primarily eBay? Since I only search for Giants, I never see these other beauties!

Actually, i dont think ive bought a single pennant on eBay. Ebay prices seem too high for my liking. I tend to look for the less well travelled parts of the internet for small auction houses and estate clearances, etc. I also frequent the more established auction houses that we all know well. 8 bought my first few pennants were from Fballguy.... That got me hooked. (Rob, I'm not sure if my wife would thank you though)

I takes me a while to get my deliveries. I use a stateside mailing service to consolidate my items so that i can get a number of purchases sent at a time for one price. That really reduces my cost of shipping to the UK. But the cost of shipping to the UK and import duties sucks. It's another reason why I'm after bargains.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Actually, i dont think ive bought a single pennant on eBay. Ebay prices seem too high for my liking. I tend to look for the less well travelled parts of the internet for small auction houses and estate clearances, etc. I also frequent the more established auction houses that we all know well. 8 bought my first few pennants were from Fballguy.... That got me hooked. (Rob, I'm not sure if my wife would thank you though)

I takes me a while to get my deliveries. I use a stateside mailing service to consolidate my items so that i can get a number of purchases sent at a time for one price. That really reduces my cost of shipping to the UK. But the cost of shipping to the UK and import duties sucks. It's another reason why I'm after bargains.

I need to find those “less well travelled parts of the internet”! Let me know if you see any Giants you don’t want!

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Agree that those are great. The Conigliaro is less than full size, is it not? I noticed the team pennant has the same "M" we've seen before. I'm not sure if Kyle or anyone else ever nailed that down...

Glad you mention it ... the mysterious "M" mark. Well, mystery solved.

"M" stands for Madaras, Inc. Guess where they were based? Minnesota. St. Paul, to be more precise.

Like ASCO, Madaras was an acronym; although I don't believe they ever marketed themselves as anything but "Madaras," it technically stood for "Marketing and Design and Research and Sales." That's a lot of ands, isn't it? You see why they just went with "Madaras" now, right?

(ASCO technically stood for "All Sports Company"; however, they too never identified themselves externally by their full name. They used "ASCO" because it put them near the top of the telephone directory.)

As I mentioned in Pennant Fever, ASCO was founded by Lars Granberg. (By the way, thanks for the plug, Gary!) I learned recently that he had a co-founder: Lou Hough. Together, they ran ASCO through the late 1960s. Eventually they split up. Granberg took ASCO; and eventually sold it to Campbell-Mithune, a large advertising firm based in Minneapolis. Hough, on the other hand, maintained his grasp on a lucrative artificial snow making business they had built together as a side-business. (Me: why do you need to make artificial snow when you live in f---ing Minnesota!? I don't know ... but that's what happened.)

By 1973 ASCO was in the hands of Campbell-Mithune, who had by then fired Granberg and most of his cronies from the company's leadership. So, Hough started his own pennant making venture! And thus, Madaras, Inc. was formed. What's more, for 18 months, Madaras had a license to manufacture MLB pennants. The "M"-marked pennants we've been discussing were made by them.

But wait! Don't these Madaras pennants look a lot like ASCO's work?? Turns out Granberg and Hough remained the best of friends well after their business split. Moreover, Madaras' pennant making factory was located at--wait for it--Second and Chestnut streets ... in Winona. Yup. So, nobody should be too surprised that these 1973-74 Madaras pennants resemble those from the previous decade by ASCO/Button House/Idea Promotions. They were likely made by the same Winonans; using ASCO's old artwork.

Think of Madaras as, like, a short-lived re-incarnation of ASCO.

So, in 1973, there were in fact three pennant makers making pennants in Winona: (1) ASCO/BH/IP; (2) WinCraft; and (3) Madaras. I'm beginning to think Winona was the pennant capital of the world!

[ooo-ribay]

Great information, Kyle…..as always!

[bocca001]

Agreed. Great stuff Kyle.

Here is an Astros with the M.

[MK]

Kyle you are the Sherlock Holmes of pennants! Great job!

[UKCardGuy]

Thanks Kyle. You're the pennant savant.

[Domer05]

I'm just glad someone appreciates this obscure side of the hobby!

My source on all this was a former ASCO employee that went on to help run Madaras in 1973. I showed him the "M" mark and he confirmed everything. I also asked about the equally mysterious "VET" mark we've discussed. Up to now, I was quite certain this was a concessionaire's mark used by ASCO during the early 1970s. So I inquired.... Unfortunately, he could not recall ever seeing it and could not identify its significance.

So there's still some mysteries left for us to solve.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by MK

Kyle you are the Sherlock Holmes of pennants! Great job!

I’m thinking more like Columbo.

[bocca001]

In my opinion, the VET pennants are relatively rare and unusual given how easy it is to find ASCO pennants of the same age. The version of Giants and Astros pennants marked with VET is rare when actually marked with "VET", but maybe even more rare when not (i.e., same pennant, not mark). I've seen some, but don't have any (vet colors/design, no vet mark). The vet versions also have a bit more color/design than the typical Giants/Astros ASCO pennant.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

In my opinion, the VET pennants are relatively rare and unusual given how easy it is to find ASCO pennants of the same age. The version of Giants and Astros pennants marked with VET is rare when actually marked with "VET", but maybe even more rare when not (i.e., same pennant, not mark). I've seen some, but don't have any (vet colors/design, no vet mark). The vet versions also have a bit more color/design than the typical Giants/Astros ASCO pennant.

I can tell you, the first pennants I ever got were VET pennants as a six or seven year old … mid to late 70s .. at Veterans Stadium. The VET pennants are all stiff and are often cut crooked.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by bocca001

In my opinion, the VET pennants are relatively rare and unusual given how easy it is to find ASCO pennants of the same age. The version of Giants and Astros pennants marked with VET is rare when actually marked with "VET", but maybe even more rare when not (i.e., same pennant, not mark). I've seen some, but don't have any (vet colors/design, no vet mark). The vet versions also have a bit more color/design than the typical Giants/Astros ASCO pennant.

Note that, of these two Giants pennants, one is marked "VET"; and the other bears ASCO's mark.

Here's four Dodger pennants from that same series/era. One bears ASCO's mark; the other Madaras' mark; next one shows "VET / MADE IN USA"; and the last simply reads "MADE IN USA" (No mention of VET). I've also seen a fifth variant bearing no mark at all--just an MLB logo and the year "1969"; and sixth variant with no MLB logo or date or maker's mark--absolutely nothing (probably from 1968, before the league cracked down on licensing).

Regardless, I think all six were made by either ASCO or Madaras; including the "VET" ones, which I suspect was simply a concessionaire's mark used by one of these companies.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by bocca001

In my opinion, the VET pennants are relatively rare and unusual given how easy it is to find ASCO pennants of the same age. The version of Giants and Astros pennants marked with VET is rare when actually marked with "VET", but maybe even more rare when not (i.e., same pennant, not mark). I've seen some, but don't have any (vet colors/design, no vet mark). The vet versions also have a bit more color/design than the typical Giants/Astros ASCO pennant.

Wow

Those Astros Pennants really pop.

The orange and the graphics works well

[ooo-ribay]

Another dye job on some not too valuable pennants. In fact, I just picked up the "crossed bats" for $23. Speaking of that pennant, did other teams use this design? It would seem they would have.

I used almost a gallon of dye solution on these two pennants . I'll bet I sprayed them (from the back) over 20 times. Note: the spines haven't been re-sewn, yet.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Another dye job on some not too valuable pennants. In fact, I just picked up the "crossed bats" for $23. Speaking of that pennant, did other teams use this design? It would seem they would have.

I used almost a gallon of dye solution on these two pennants . I'll bet I sprayed them (from the back) over 20 times. Note: the spines haven't been re-sewn, yet.

Incredible improvement. Really nice job Rob.

How long did the entire process take from start to finish?

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Another dye job on some not too valuable pennants. In fact, I just picked up the "crossed bats" for $23. Speaking of that pennant, did other teams use this design? It would seem they would have.

I used almost a gallon of dye solution on these two pennants . I'll bet I sprayed them (from the back) over 20 times. Note: the spines haven't been re-sewn, yet.

Great job Rob.

With regards to the Cross Bat design....I've catalogued 1,360 pennants in the latest version of the Pennant Catalog here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1poP...ew?usp=sharing

The crossed bat theme is used in a number of pennants, but the giants are the only one that I've seen that use that specific layout. The closest that I've seen is a Hall of Fame pennant (HOF008-TBC) that uses crossed bats with glove and ball.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Incredible improvement. Really nice job Rob.

How long did the entire process take from start to finish?

I started after I came home from the bar , 9 hours of sleep, finished up by 5:00 the next afternoon.

I remember being disappointed in the Polo Grounds pennant when I got it 25 years ago. This was pre-ebay and I would buy pennants, sight unseen, from Bob Rothschild’s SCD ads.

[ooo-ribay]

Some more pics. The spines were nasty, too. I also guess I never realized that tassels are one piece of felt, folded over. Neither of these are "display pennants," so I just spray glued the spines back on and called it good. I gotta go through my SFG pennants...I may have a green, "Giant on the bridge" pennant that needs freshening up. I think green was as bad as blue, when it comes to fading.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Great job Rob.

With regards to the Cross Bat design....I've catalogued 1,360 pennants in the latest version of the Pennant Catalog here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1poP...ew?usp=sharing

The crossed bat theme is used in a number of pennants, but the giants are the only one that I've seen that use that specific layout. The closest that I've seen is a Hall of Fame pennant (HOF008-TBC) that uses crossed bats with glove and ball.

That's surprising. Aside from the baseball incorporated into the "G", the bats, glove and mask is a very simple design I would have thought to be used by other teams.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

That's surprising. Aside from the baseball incorporated into the "G", the bats, glove and mask is a very simple design I would have thought to be used by other teams.

Rob’s national league champs pennant seems to be of that mystery maker that we have discussed recently. I do believe Kyle when he says the Trench used that design, but it’s the construction is very unique and unlike Trench. You can see that the spine has sort of a “two ply“ material, not quite felt and not cloth. And this is similar to the World Series Pennants from 1954 through 57 that list both teams, all cloth and all are hard to find unfaded. I believe it is also the same maker as that 1956 NFL championship Pennant that just sold.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Rob’s national league champs pennant seems to be of that mystery maker that we have discussed recently. I do believe Kyle when he says the Trench used that design, but it’s the construction is very unique and unlike Trench. You can see that the spine has sort of a “two ply“ material, not quite felt and not cloth. And this is similar to the World Series Pennants from 1954 through 57 that list both teams, all cloth and all are hard to find unfaded. I believe it is also the same maker as that 1956 NFL championship Pennant that just sold.

The spine is strange. I put it in a weak bleach solution and it damn near fell apart. It also “grew” about an inch in length.

[thetahat]

As a collector of all teams I typically don’t emphasize color variations, if I already have the same design. Exceptions are Dodgers Emmet Kelly pennants and STL Browns pennants with the Apotheosis “shield” logo. I’m always looking for different colors of those. Also Phillies blue jay pennants. So I was psyched to get this incredibly bright and clean blue Jay pennant. It appeared to be a fourth color of the late 40s version: I had gold, powder blue, and what appears to be turquoise. This one is baby blue. Not sure if the turquoise was the same color originally and it “aged” uniformity.

This pennant maker is that other “mystery” we still haven’t figured out … same one that does all the sliding runner pennants.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

As a collector of all teams I typically don’t emphasize color variations, if I already have the same design. Exceptions are Dodgers Emmet Kelly pennants and STL Browns pennants with the Apotheosis “shield” logo. I’m always looking for different colors of those. Also Phillies blue jay pennants. So I was psyched to get this incredibly bright and clean blue Jay pennant. It appeared to be a fourth color of the late 40s version: I had gold, powder blue, and what appears to be turquoise. This one is baby blue. Not sure if the turquoise was the same color originally and it “aged” uniformity.

This pennant maker is that other “mystery” we still haven’t figured out … same one that does all the sliding runner pennants.

Two beauties! Usually these have faded to a light baby blue or even a sandy grey.

And definitely the same maker as the sliding scene Pennants.