Knickerbocker Photo (Update)

[molenick]

I cannot comment on the reliability of facial recognition but one thing I think is not meaningful (in either direction) is that there are six people in the photo.

The "pro" side has to come up with something about it being a reasonable number for executives and directors. The Knickerbockers had three officers to start (president, vice president, secretary-treasurer). I am not sure what happened later on but four (splitting secretary and treasurer) would be pretty standard. Six seems arbitrary. Why not five or seven? Sure, it could be a mixture of current and former officers…in which case, there could be any number of people in the photo. While it is possible to make up a story to fit the narrative that these six people were all associated with the Knickerbockers, it is also true that there are many, many other reasons that six people would be in a photo. I don't think six has any significance without some other information coming to light.

The "con" side wants it to be ten (I guess for the starters plus a manager or substitute) but I don't think that is necessary for it to be the Knickerbockers (or any team). Maybe it was a reunion and only six people showed up. An undocumented reunion of the most famous team of early baseball who are essentially now known because they liked to document things.

Here is a photo of what are clearly baseball players on the same team (or at least people dressed as baseball players on the same team) plus the manager or proud father or owner of the photo studio or top hat salesman. Why are there four? I don’t know, but that doesn’t mean they are not baseball players on the same team. It doesn’t mean anything except that four people in baseball uniforms (plus a guy in a suit) posed for a photo 130-140 years ago.

[SteveS]

That's a really cool pic, Michael! I love those bats. And I totally agree that it means nothing either way that there are six people in the photo. I was just throwing out a possible reason. As you say, one of many. But just as an aside, six would not be at all unreasonable if it is indeed the officers. They would have a president, vice president, secretary, treasurer, and a couple or a few directors (the numbers varied over the years).

[molenick]

Thank you, Steve. I decided awhile ago that if I was going to collect generic baseball cdvs, cabinets, and tintypes I wasn't going to mess around with street clothes poses...or even uniformed poses without equipment (I didn't want to end up with firemen or acrobats). Of course, there are exceptions if the uniform is obviously baseball or if the street clothes pose is in a known set with positive IDs (like Warren cdvs of the Boston Red Stockings...not that I have any). But for 95% of that part of my collection, I need some baseball equipment to be shown or I am usually not interested (to the point where I prefer street clothes and equipment to uniforms and no equipment).

That being said, good luck with your photo. I lean more on the "I need to see more proof" side but I admire your utilization of modern techniques to try and figure out what you have.

[SteveS]

Thanks, Michael. I continue to look for more ways to prove it. And as you mentioned the Red Stockings and non-uniformed poses, I figure I'll toss in something that I picked up. Again, it was simply listed as just a generic guy from Boston, but I'm pretty sure he's George Wright.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by SteveS

Thanks, Michael. I continue to look for more ways to prove it. And as you mentioned the Red Stockings and non-uniformed poses, I figure I'll toss in something that I picked up. Again, it was simply listed as just a generic guy from Boston, but I'm pretty sure he's George Wright.

Nice find. This one looks like a dead ringer to me. Although I'm sure the expert Mr drcy will tell us all that he looks more like Shaq than George Wright.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Nice find. This one looks like a dead ringer to me. Although I'm sure the expert Mr drcy will tell us all that he looks more like Shaq than George Wright.

I do not think that is George Wright.

[rhettyeakley]

You all need to stop.

These are NOT close.

Also, for your own sanity stop buying cabinets of "learned gents" or "generic Boston guy" on ebay

[molenick]

Well, no disrespect meant, but (unless you are trying to be funny) the fact that you think that cabinet looks anything like the person below or either of the pictures you posted makes me more doubtful of the Knickerbockers IDs. But that's just me, I guess others could disagree.

[SteveS]

I'm glad I opened a whole new can of worms ("He's a dead-ringer"/"He looks nothing like him"). Snowman, did you notice that drcy edited his comment after I responded to it in order to diss you and others? Yet he still hasn't pointed out any specific glaring differences, despite my numerous invitations to do so.

Michael, that picture of George Wright you posted is from his playing days. He eventually lost all of that tremendous hair. Which is kind of reminiscent of the Walter Avery discussion. Here's another pic of an older George.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by molenick

Well, no disrespect meant, but (unless you are trying to be funny) the fact that you think that cabinet looks anything like the person below or either of the pictures you posted makes me more doubtful of the Knickerbockers IDs. But that's just me, I guess others could disagree.

Interestingly, this photo of George Wright looks far less like the other photo of George Wright than the one Steve posted above. Steve's photo looks much more like the other photo of him than this one lol. It's amazing how much age can change someone's appearance. But the side-by-side Steve posted above is pretty difficult to argue against in terms of appearance. Those two photos are dead wringers side-by-side. Anyone who says otherwise is being disingenuous.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by SteveS

Thanks, Michael. I continue to look for more ways to prove it. And as you mentioned the Red Stockings and non-uniformed poses, I figure I'll toss in something that I picked up. Again, it was simply listed as just a generic guy from Boston, but I'm pretty sure he's George Wright.

I think it's more likely Chris Cornell or his great grandfather.

[SteveS]

Shoeless Moe, how could everyone have missed that! George Wright never died. He put on a wig and became Chris Cornell. Then Chris Cornell faked his own death, and we'll have to wait another 50 years to see who he comes back as next.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

I think it's more likely Chris Cornell or his great grandfather.

In perhaps another strange twist, I used to mow Chris Cornell's grass when I was in high school. True story. You might be on to something here.

[molenick]

I have already admitted defeat on George Wright because even the known photos of him don't look like the same person to me. But I will say that the first person I thought of for this one was Dabney Coleman.

Side-by-side I now notice more of the differences than the similarities but when I saw the picture, that's the first person that came to mind. Not only came to mind but in my head he looked exactly like Dabney Coleman. I think I picked up on some of the similarities and filled in the blanks until I was convinced that that is what Dabney Coleman actually looks like.

I'm not sure what this means except that the mind does have a tendency to look for patterns and comparisons that may or may not be based on reality (this is not a comment on any of the previous claims or suppositions, which I will leave to others).

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snowman

In perhaps another strange twist, I used to mow Chris Cornell's grass when I was in high school. True story. You might be on to something here.

Just want to make sure I'm keeping this all straight. You've been collecting for 54 years (I can't find it now but I think you said that somewhere) You mowed Cornell's grass while you were in High School. If Cornell were still alive he'd be 57. If you've been collecting 54 years one would assume you are older than 57. Let's say you counted the first pack you got at 6 years old as the time you began collecting. That means you graduated high school in 1979 or 1980. When Cornell was 15 or 16...

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Snowman

In perhaps another strange twist, I used to mow Chris Cornell's grass when I was in high school. True story. You might be on to something here.

If I am not mistaken, I believe the phrase "mowed Chris Cornell's grass" is a commonly used euphemism for smoking marijuana.

Brian