Thank you all for your opinions. I find it really interesting that some people can look at it and see the resemblances immediately, while others don't see anything. As for provenance, while it would be great to know more about this photo's history, I have learned from this forum that provenance is not everything. There is a fascinating thread from several years back regarding the 1847 daguerreotype purported to depict the Knickerbockers. It was given to the Hall of Fame by Alexander Cartwright's grandson. They used it to design his plaque. It's been pictured in books and TV shows, including by some of baseball's most noted historians. Rock-solid provenance. But one of SABR's experts had questions, and wrote a lengthy analysis about how the photograph does not depict the people suggested, despite the fact that it was kept within Cartwright's family. The owner wrote a very passionate defense. Both were supported by facial-recognition experts who had diametrically-opposed opinions. In the end, it's up to the viewer to decide.
As for facial-recognition software, I merely pointed out the results that I got (and I need to correct that it was 82%-97%). I do not put full credence in that, and would never claim that it proves anything conclusively one way or the other.
As for the similarities I see, I will try to summarize some of them here. For Avery, the slanted jawline. For Adams, the eyelids/droopy eye and open mouth (all of which can be seen in both of the comparisons I posted of him). For Curry, the severely bagged eyes and open mouth. For De Bost, the hairline and face shape. For Niebuhr, the hairstyle, including the parts combed forward. For Birney, the face shape and ear placement. Please note that this is just a very cursory summary of just a few of the unique features that stand out. For each of them, the eyes, noses, mouths, and ears all line up in terms of size, shape, and placement.
And to Gary, this stereoview is an albumen. I believe that Sphere was referring to the photo taken in 1859, which is a copy (I am not sure whether the original still exists).
Finally, I am not sure whether this photo will ever be proven to be Knickerbockers with 100% certainty to everyone's satisfaction. As I pointed out above, rock-solid provenance is not what it's cracked up to be. I remember being at a card show at the Pomona Fairgrounds back in the '90s right after Bruce McNall bought the Wagner and PSA made it its first slab. It was displayed by the front door with a huge security guard standing next to it. I took one look, and within half a second knew that it was trimmed. If you've never seen it in person, it's blatantly obvious. I told anyone who would listen, and from that moment forward have never trusted the grading companies (who continue to have issues slabbing iffy cards). Yet that Wagner has been sold and resold since then. For record amounts, despite the full knowledge now that it is indeed altered and not in the condition claimed. My point is that knowledgeable and well-meaning people can look at the same thing and see it differently. I believe that this photo depicts Knickerbockers, and others on and off this forum agree with me. Others on and off this forum disagree with me. If I decide to keep it, that's up to me. If I decide to sell it or donate it, it would be up to the other person or entity to decide whether it's worth that investment. In any event, I will continue to do research to try and find more convincing evidence, and maybe find a trusted expert who can determine with certainty the age of the photo and whether it has been made into a stereoview from an earlier image. But I know that no matter how convinced I and others are, there will always be people who disagree. That's human nature for you.
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09-04-2021, 08:15 AM
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