Ethical Concerns Regarding Heritage?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Based on the blowout thread, both WATA and Heritage are pushing back hard against the accusations.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...1483086&page=4

Eh, all they said was "no way, that video is totally false and we should have been contacted."

Note that they didn't specifically deny anything - no denial by WATA that they were grading games belonging to their own people. No denial by Halperin that he lied about being part of a group he was part of. No denial regarding the settlement of previous illegal behavior. And so on.

[swarmee]

Oh, I noticed that. But most players don't even respond anymore. The video is well done, and yes, I agree they were "creating" the market. Truthfully, I think the only way this stuff gets lessened in the future is the IRS requiring all consignment houses to file income tax paperwork with sale values for every consignor who sells more than $600 annually through any of them.

I don't see how all that money flows the way it does if the sellers knew the IRS was getting a record of every card/coin/game/etc they sold.

[Snowman]

I only got about halfway through it. It reeked of bullshit nonsense to me.

By their logic, anyone promoting Bitcoin must be a crook. People who believe in something invest in it and promote it. Gee, who knew? That's not market manipulation. That's speculative investing and discussing one's interests. And he provides no proof whatsoever of the more sinister claims.

Classic tinfoil hat Blowhard forum nonsense.

[mrreality68]

A lot of information and a lot to think about

Heritage has to defend themselves because of their brand and reputation are at stake

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

A lot of information and a lot to think about

Heritage has to defend themselves because of their brand and reputation are at stake

Against shill bidding, they can fall back on their Rule #21; what they may be doing is legal in their state of registration, and spelled out in their user agreement.

21. The Auctioneer, its affiliates, or their employees consign items to be sold in the Auction, and may bid on those lots or any other lots.

Everyone who bids in a Heritage Auction or creates an account, agrees to these terms. Are they ethical? Many would say no. But that obviously hasn't hurt them so far.

As to pushing the market (or creating one out of thin air), most auction houses are of the opinion nowadays that their job is to create higher sale prices, as a service to their consignors.

Is the whole NFT market a pump and dump scheme as well, or are there really collectors shelling out millions for animated gifs attached to a blockchain?

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Against shill bidding, they can fall back on their Rule #21; what they may be doing is legal in their state of registration, and spelled out in their user agreement.

Everyone who bids in a Heritage Auction or creates an account, agrees to these terms. Are they ethical? Many would say no. But that obviously hasn't hurt them so far.

As to pushing the market (or creating one out of thin air), most auction houses are of the opinion nowadays that their job is to create higher sale prices, as a service to their consignors.

Is the whole NFT market a pump and dump scheme as well, or are there really collectors shelling out millions for animated gifs attached to a blockchain?

I do not disagree with you just saying they are trying to cover themselves to protect their reputation against the allegations

[rugbymarine]

I appreciate the info laid out here, especially that Rule #21 on Heritage terms of service.

I had scrolled through and flagged and bunch of lots to possibly bid on, but for now I will pass on bidding.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I only got about halfway through it. It reeked of bullshit nonsense to me.

By their logic, anyone promoting Bitcoin must be a crook. People who believe in something invest in it and promote it. Gee, who knew? That's not market manipulation. That's speculative investing and discussing one's interests. And he provides no proof whatsoever of the more sinister claims.

Classic tinfoil hat Blowhard forum nonsense.

If you saw no proof, you watched a different video.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I only got about halfway through it. It reeked of bullshit nonsense to me.

By their logic, anyone promoting Bitcoin must be a crook. People who believe in something invest in it and promote it. Gee, who knew? That's not market manipulation. That's speculative investing and discussing one's interests. And he provides no proof whatsoever of the more sinister claims.

Classic tinfoil hat Blowhard forum nonsense.

The article seems to have some definite facts, like who purchased the cartridge, for example, and who that person's employer is/was. Interpretations of those actions can be varied but some things did happen the way it says they did, though I have no opinion on Heritage or their actions or the accusations made.

[swarmee]

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/...Published=true

Now they're digging further into the connection between WATA, Goldin Auctions, PSA, Collectors Holdings (Nat Turner et al), and their PR firm. Seems very familiar.

[MattyC]

Great article. I love how it calls out legacy media for breathlessly and recklessly reporting all these record sales— when these institutions should be digging into the self-dealing and corruption rampant in collecting.

Goldin says, “firewall” between the AH and PSA — both owned by the Turner cadre. But then sells full synergistic integration to a group of insiders.

We now have an AH and TPGs owned by the same group, with the AH selling collections graded by the in house TPG — and in some cases the collections are owned by directors of the TPG. It’s the Wild West.

Anyone who thinks the rising prices are due solely to natural collector demand is beyond naive. Favorite quote from article:

“…A picture is emerging of a relatively small cadre of men who sought to produce a new alternative asset class out of thin air and become even richer than they already are. In establishing this new asset class, these men benefited from the ongoing and stunning lack of collectibles regulation from the FTC—indeed, one of the men, James Halperin, had cause to know that even grave misconduct in the collectibles market is often met with an easily survivable, slap-on-the-wrist FTC fine—as well as new tax regulations involving luxury collectibles that were written by one of the men in question.

These men were aided, too, by fawning, uncritical coverage of their activities by the legacy media, with embarrassingly credulous headlines that did little to question the conspicuously inorganic nature of the nation’s newest market bubble. And in one case, a History Channel “reality” show knowingly or negligently let two men from this cadre pretend not to know one another on-air—a historically galling television segment that played a critical role in moving the video game market from a tiny, niche market to the eight- or even nine-figure one it has become just thirty months later.”

[Peter_Spaeth]

I miss the good old days when all you had to worry about was card doctors, PSA and SGC grading Hall's and Forman's cards, and some AH shill bidding. Now it's all so much more corporate and complicated.

[marzoumanian]

I have a headache after reading this piece! But along the way I kept saying, "Wow."
It is the Wild West now more so than it ever was during the Mastro Auctions scandal. It's scary and disturbing when you see how all these companies are intertwined and scratching each other's backs. Even if readers here skim some of this looooong article it is well worth their time to review, IMHO. Please educate yourselves.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/...Published=true

Now they're digging further into the connection between WATA, Goldin Auctions, PSA, Collectors Holdings (Nat Turner et al), and their PR firm. Seems very familiar.

This article is insane.

[conor912]

I’m also curious to hear people’s thoughts on the difference between building a bubble vs. building a market. Surely there is overlap, but where is the line between good faith and sketchiness, sketchiness and law-breaking?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/...Published=true

Now they're digging further into the connection between WATA, Goldin Auctions, PSA, Collectors Holdings (Nat Turner et al), and their PR firm. Seems very familiar.

Highly recommend everyone read this predecessor article to the one linked above by swarmee:

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/...nal-video-game

It's a long read with a lot of detail but highly worthwhile. If nothing else, it's worth reading just to see the embedded Youtube video of the Pawn Stars segment with the Super Mario game. That segment is so brutally scripted and obviously fake it will make your head spin.

[Fred]

I just looked at the Goldin Auctions offering - lots of Video Games and WATA graded material with starting values above what a green T206 Cobb would go for (ok, not in 9.4 condition as graded by WATA), but still, how many people out there would rather have a common video game with a label that says its PRIMO than a nice piece of baseball history like a green (or for that matter, any) T206 Cobb.

Am I missing something here?