HBO's Real Sports Will Cover Baseball Card Boom

[Bicem]

Thought it was fine. Mostly around the modern surge and $$$$ that's now involved.

Highlights:
Some 18 year old's $3M modern basketball collection after the surge and how he's now worth more than his father and is skipping college to focus on cards.

Some high-end private collector showing some of his cards like a Wagner and the huge security team he uses when transporting cards. Had a case of 24 cards worth $40M, mostly high grade mainstream Ruth, Cobb, Jackson, Aaron, Mantle, Robinson (going from memory) and the Wagner (PSA 3 I think).

Some shop owner that does live breaks and is now making millions after the surge. Shows him attending the National via private jet.

Lots of video from the National. Interview with our favorite FBI agent.

Some collector of NBA Top Shot and explaining non tangible digital collectibles.

Think that was about it unless I'm missing something.

[MattyC]

I hope they covered all the massive manipulation behind the surge in prices. Even if one loves cards and collecting, to participate in the hobby these days--- especially in the expensive end-- makes one feel like a mark at worst or in desperate need of a shower at best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvLFEh7V18A

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I hope they covered all the massive manipulation behind the surge in prices. Even if one loves cards and collecting, to participate in the hobby these days--- especially in the expensive end-- makes one feel like a mark at worst or in desperate need of a shower at best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvLFEh7V18A

Agree but doubt they will. That would have to be on an American Greed Show.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Agree but doubt they will. That would have to be on an American Greed Show.

Yep, as well it should be. Things just don't surge naturally the way so many cards have. But enthusiastic participants want to believe they are making savvy buys on an ever upward slope— and that belief is seemingly supported by a reality created by the AH's and TPGs that are in cahoots (and now even incestuously co-owned).

We all long knew of the cozy relationship between AHs and TPGs. The favorable grades given. The direct lines of contact between the AH heads and Orlando. The "Invitationals" where high-volume submitters/doctors were granted physical audience with the graders, where the doctors were actually told what to fix on a card, to get the card into a higher graded holder. All this shade has long been out in the open, so it amazes me there are people who believe the price surges of the past two years are due solely to natural demand and new money. After all, one part of creating a trap/bubble is the drawing in of new money who believe there is a real market developing. That belief is nutured and fostered by the prices that the AHs record.

Is there genuine demand at some level? Of course; it's the mass of collectors who form that key backbone of genuine demand; then the shady AHs and TPGs stand on that backbone to take things to where they are now.

We can only hope something happens to catalyze a massive correction; that may only be collectors all abstaining, which is impossible, LOL. Theoretically, if collectors left the sordid sandbox, that would leave just a bunch of manipulators passing the hot potato around with no marks in sight. Then maybe they'd just leave— and we'd see what prices look like then.

Of course, when collectors returned, so would the manipulators. And as prices rose once again, too many myopic mark collectors would break out their pom-poms to cheer their rising card values, not realizing all else they're cheering for— which includes more money out of their pockets due to higher prices, LOL.

[MattyC]

By the way, that video on manipulation was just poofed on the PSA boards. Unsurprisingly, LOL.

But what do we expect when the same guys own the TPGs and the AHs.

God Forbid we collector marks get wise and discuss how these guys are using our love of collecting to fuel steroidal prices and line their pockets.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yep, as well it should be. Things just don't surge naturally the way so many cards have. But enthusiastic participants want to believe they are making savvy buys on an ever upward slope— and that belief is seemingly supported by a reality created by the AH's and TPGs that are in cahoots (and now even incestuously co-owned).

We all long knew of the cozy relationship between AHs and TPGs. The favorable grades given. The direct lines of contact between the AH heads and Orlando. The "Invitationals" where high-volume submitters/doctors were granted physical audience with the graders, where the doctors were actually told what to fix on a card, to get the card into a higher graded holder. All this shade has long been out in the open, so it amazes me there are people who believe the price surges of the past two years are due solely to natural demand and new money. After all, one part of creating a trap/bubble is the drawing in of new money who believe there is a real market developing. That belief is nutured and fostered by the prices that the AHs record.

Is there genuine demand at some level? Of course; it's the mass of collectors who form that key backbone of genuine demand; then the shady AHs and TPGs stand on that backbone to take things to where they are now.

We can only hope something happens to catalyze a massive correction; that may only be collectors all abstaining, which is impossible, LOL. Theoretically, if collectors left the sordid sandbox, that would leave just a bunch of manipulators passing the hot potato around with no marks in sight. Then maybe they'd just leave— and we'd see what prices look like then.

Of course, when collectors returned, so would the manipulators. And as prices rose once again, too many myopic mark collectors would break out their pom-poms to cheer their rising card values, not realizing all else they're cheering for— which includes more money out of their pockets due to higher prices, LOL.

+1 you’re the only other guy I’ve seen on here mention invitationals being able to sit and talk one on one with the grader how shady was that. I hope they stoped doing those.

[Seven]

I'll say this much:

We've seen prices come down on everything with the exception of high end vintage. Interest in the hobby is always a good thing, I will never complain about that. What I don't like is cards being looked at as an investment, that just isn't for me. I don't "invest" in cards, I collect them. This is something I've said time and time again. It would take a lot for me to part with one of my cards. That could also be because my collection is smaller in comparison to most of the users on here.

The sky high prices, are what they are. Me complaining about them, won't change it. I still enjoy the hobby, I plan on collecting for a long time, this is a hobby of patience and time. Deal with the good and the bad.

[Exhibitman]

The guy with the jet was taking millions in inventory and $500K in cash with him. If I had that sort of stuff to haul a private jet would be the way to do it. Hell, if I ever decide to move farther than a drive away thats how my modest by comparison collection will go with me. With armed logistics at both ends of the trip and a safe deposit box waiting at the destination city.

As far as the boom (and bust), you know what they say: never wrong, only early.

I don't buy the it is all manipulated stuff. The prices we saw over the weekend in Love of the Game were not shilled, they were real collectors buying cards. Al is as proactive and honest as it gets when it comes to shilling and other games. I trust his integrity to run a clean auction. I've already spoken with some of the winners and underbidders of some of the expensive cards and they are all legit. There is definitely a degree of thievery out there but it is not all-encompassing. If you believe otherwise, just walk away, because this obviously is causing you more distress than enjoyment.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Agree but doubt they will. That would have to be on an American Greed Show.

Anyone know those directors to get a show produced?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I hope they covered all the massive manipulation behind the surge in prices. Even if one loves cards and collecting, to participate in the hobby these days--- especially in the expensive end-- makes one feel like a mark at worst or in desperate need of a shower at best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvLFEh7V18A

No mention of that

[conor912]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I hope they covered all the massive manipulation behind the surge in prices. Even if one loves cards and collecting, to participate in the hobby these days--- especially in the expensive end-- makes one feel like a mark at worst or in desperate need of a shower at best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvLFEh7V18A

That’s a wild watch. Pretty much a perfect apples to apples for cards. Certainly paints Jim Halperin as a real POS.

[Brian Van Horn]

It should be interesting in a couple years. Just saying.

[Harliduck]

I enjoyed the segment for the most part...that was a great recap by Bicem.


The card shop owner that took the jet to the National didn't make sense to me. I get making money on the new shiny stuff, pack breaks, all that...but they didn't give much info on how he is making "millions". I assume he must have cashed in a few new 1 of 1 cards or something, but that guy didn't add up to me...and came off as a douche.

The 18 year old kid seems pretty savvy. Loved his line that his generation will look at an Aaron rookie the same as past generations looked at a Picasso. Great comment...

[philo98]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I hope they covered all the massive manipulation behind the surge in prices. Even if one loves cards and collecting, to participate in the hobby these days--- especially in the expensive end-- makes one feel like a mark at worst or in desperate need of a shower at best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvLFEh7V18A

This is an excellent video and is no doubt happening in the sports card market today. Probably could also include the memorabilia market as well.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Thought it was fine. Mostly around the modern surge and $$$$ that's now involved.

Highlights:
Some 18 year old's $3M modern basketball collection after the surge and how he's now worth more than his father and is skipping college to focus on cards.

Some high-end private collector showing some of his cards like a Wagner and the huge security team he uses when transporting cards. Had a case of 24 cards worth $40M, mostly high grade mainstream Ruth, Cobb, Jackson, Aaron, Mantle, Robinson (going from memory) and the Wagner (PSA 3 I think).

Some shop owner that does live breaks and is now making millions after the surge. Shows him attending the National via private jet.

Lots of video from the National. Interview with our favorite FBI agent.

Some collector of NBA Top Shot and explaining non tangible digital collectibles.

Think that was about it unless I'm missing something.

Thanks for the highlights on it

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Some shop owner that does live breaks and is now making millions after the surge. Shows him attending the National via private jet.

Seems like this is a way to make good money these days. Not sure how one would make millions doing it unless you've got a monetized Youtube channel that's doing huge numbers of views. But breaks are super popular right now and there's a lot money to be made doing them.

[Foo3112]

Thanks for providing those highlight recaps. I'll have to try and find it online somewhere since I don't have an HBO subscription.

[Mountaineer1999]

I found it a little depressing as I've made no money ��

[Vegas Cards]

Am I the only one that felt worried for that kid? I hope he goes to college. Take some business classes. More than just the learning, it's a great opportunity to expand horizons, see what else is out there in the world. And I hope someone is telling him to diversify. Sell some cards. Buy a duplex. Buy the S&P 500. Anything. I'd hate to hear about him in his twenties, no college, having lost it all. Too depressing.

[68Hawk]

I just can't help my disbelief for all the posters on here living in the sunk hole existence of a 'ruined' hobby. All the corrections you seek, the dirty tricks that have distorted you're favorite pastime, the nefarious monsters inside your nightmares.

Don't you people realize you are a speck on the side of a mountain sized group that makes up the collector community? Most couldn't give a fig for your lamentations and will drive the hobby forward in popularity and success that cements its place in our past times. Sounds like many of you would rather burn it down than have it be something you'd prefer it wasn't.

The cards were pennies and then dollars and then tens of dollars or hundreds of dollars, until they became thousands of dollars and now millions of dollars.
140 years of inevitable increasing desirability and cost and pleasure to huge numbers of people across the world, corrections here and there but telling the same greater story over time....

People want the cards, are willing to pay to own them, and as competition to own them has grown from children to odd non mainstream basement dwelling hobbyists to widespread sports loving populace, the price has gone ever upwards.
Not for dreck. Not for everything. Not for the purpose of owning full sets.
But for enjoying a card or cards of your favorite heroes.
Much as it was for the kids just after the turn of the 20th century.

If you're smart, you'll continue to hold the valuable and important cards you collected at relatively small entry prices, and perhaps sell them in your retirement at wonderfully high numbers. Or pass them along to your fortunate descendants.

What a bunch of whiny old geezers (I'm 52) you all come across as.
You should get out of the hobby to minimize your angst, the railing is such a waste when no one is making you collect.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

I just can't help my disbelief for all the posters on here living in the sunk hole existence of a 'ruined' hobby. All the corrections you seek, the dirty tricks that have distorted you're favorite pastime, the nefarious monsters inside your nightmares.

Don't you people realize you are a speck on the side of a mountain sized group that makes up the collector community? Most couldn't give a fig for your lamentations and will drive the hobby forward in popularity and success that cements its place in our past times. Sounds like many of you would rather burn it down than have it be something you'd prefer it wasn't.

The cards were pennies and then dollars and then tens of dollars or hundreds of dollars, until they became thousands of dollars and now millions of dollars.
140 years of inevitable increasing desirability and cost and pleasure to huge numbers of people across the world, corrections here and there but telling the same greater story over time....

People want the cards, are willing to pay to own them, and as competition to own them has grown from children to odd non mainstream basement dwelling hobbyists to widespread sports loving populace, the price has gone ever upwards.
Not for dreck. Not for everything. Not for the purpose of owning full sets.
But for enjoying a card or cards of your favorite heroes.
Much as it was for the kids just after the turn of the 20th century.

If you're smart, you'll continue to hold the valuable and important cards you collected at relatively small entry prices, and perhaps sell them in your retirement at wonderfully high numbers. Or pass them along to your fortunate descendants.

What a bunch of whiny old geezers (I'm 52) you all come across as.
You should get out of the hobby to minimize your angst, the railing is such a waste when no one is making you collect.

I'm half way to 66, but I agree with you.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by 68hawk

i just can't help my disbelief for all the posters on here living in the sunk hole existence of a 'ruined' hobby. All the corrections you seek, the dirty tricks that have distorted you're favorite pastime, the nefarious monsters inside your nightmares.

Don't you people realize you are a speck on the side of a mountain sized group that makes up the collector community? Most couldn't give a fig for your lamentations and will drive the hobby forward in popularity and success that cements its place in our past times. Sounds like many of you would rather burn it down than have it be something you'd prefer it wasn't.

The cards were pennies and then dollars and then tens of dollars or hundreds of dollars, until they became thousands of dollars and now millions of dollars.
140 years of inevitable increasing desirability and cost and pleasure to huge numbers of people across the world, corrections here and there but telling the same greater story over time....

People want the cards, are willing to pay to own them, and as competition to own them has grown from children to odd non mainstream basement dwelling hobbyists to widespread sports loving populace, the price has gone ever upwards.
Not for dreck. Not for everything. Not for the purpose of owning full sets.
But for enjoying a card or cards of your favorite heroes.
Much as it was for the kids just after the turn of the 20th century.

If you're smart, you'll continue to hold the valuable and important cards you collected at relatively small entry prices, and perhaps sell them in your retirement at wonderfully high numbers. Or pass them along to your fortunate descendants.

What a bunch of whiny old geezers (i'm 52) you all come across as.
You should get out of the hobby to minimize your angst, the railing is such a waste when no one is making you collect.

Amen!

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

I just can't help my disbelief for all the posters on here living in the sunk hole existence of a 'ruined' hobby. All the corrections you seek, the dirty tricks that have distorted you're favorite pastime, the nefarious monsters inside your nightmares.

Don't you people realize you are a speck on the side of a mountain sized group that makes up the collector community? Most couldn't give a fig for your lamentations and will drive the hobby forward in popularity and success that cements its place in our past times. Sounds like many of you would rather burn it down than have it be something you'd prefer it wasn't.

The cards were pennies and then dollars and then tens of dollars or hundreds of dollars, until they became thousands of dollars and now millions of dollars.
140 years of inevitable increasing desirability and cost and pleasure to huge numbers of people across the world, corrections here and there but telling the same greater story over time....

People want the cards, are willing to pay to own them, and as competition to own them has grown from children to odd non mainstream basement dwelling hobbyists to widespread sports loving populace, the price has gone ever upwards.
Not for dreck. Not for everything. Not for the purpose of owning full sets.
But for enjoying a card or cards of your favorite heroes.
Much as it was for the kids just after the turn of the 20th century.

If you're smart, you'll continue to hold the valuable and important cards you collected at relatively small entry prices, and perhaps sell them in your retirement at wonderfully high numbers. Or pass them along to your fortunate descendants.

What a bunch of whiny old geezers (I'm 52) you all come across as.
You should get out of the hobby to minimize your angst, the railing is such a waste when no one is making you collect.

No one complained or if they did it was minimal. Maybe people miss what it used to be and say so.. is that ok? Kids have been entirely pushed out of baseball card collecting, that is unless you're a rich suburban kid that daddy gives you 5k to take a chance on an NBA rookie card.