ebay finds that PWCC engaged in shill bidding?

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Snowman

This screenshot topic is a prime example. It keeps getting passed around as though it were evidence of PWCC instructing their buyers to shill bid on their auctions. This doesn't appear to be true though.

In the screenshot he basically demands the guy places the high bid. And they reference previous discussions they have had around bid increments.

Not evidence of shill bidding, but does raise a number of questions. First, why is an auction house discussing bidding strategy with a potential buyer? If the bidder is a problem, block his access. This is simple stuff. And how does Brent know the high bid will get beat?

Lots to unpack in that exchange and none of it screams integrity from either side.

[japhi]

For the folks that say they simply pay the price they are comfortable with, and therefore can't be had by a shill bidder....I'm curious to understand where that pricing decision comes from? Do you folks have some magical trading card evaluation logic? Or do you use previous sales history? If the latter, you are absolutely exposed to all these bidding schemes.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by japhi

For the folks that say they simply pay the price they are comfortable with, and therefore can't be had by a shill bidder....I'm curious to understand where that pricing decision comes from? Do you folks have some magical trading card evaluation logic? Or do you use previous sales history? If the latter, you are absolutely exposed to all these bidding schemes.

Throw out PWCC as a comparable sale number valuation, I’ve been doing that for years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Throw out PWCC as a comparable sale number valuation, I’ve been doing that for years.

Like the old Russian judge thing in gymnastics.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

except that the numbers you AREN'T throwing out have still been influenced by PWCC numbers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

except that the numbers you AREN'T throwing out have still been influenced by PWCC numbers.

It's a giant cluster fork.

[Yoda]

There was an interesting post this afternoon from one of the talking heads on U Tube offering a different scenario about this whole mess: Now that Ken Goldin is part of the CU family and about to launch his new platform, what better way to cripple one of your chief competitors, in this case PWCC, than to present to Ebay irrefutable evidence that PWCC has been shill bidding. Plausible, who knows.
The only character to complete the picture is Gary Moser.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Throw out PWCC as a comparable sale number valuation, I’ve been doing that for years.

Doesn’t work that way unless you can convince the rest of the market to do same.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by japhi

Doesn’t work that way unless you can convince the rest of the market to do same.

Hopefully the rest will wake up and smell the garbage for what it is,’it’s
Caca.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by japhi

For the folks that say they simply pay the price they are comfortable with, and therefore can't be had by a shill bidder....I'm curious to understand where that pricing decision comes from? Do you folks have some magical trading card evaluation logic? Or do you use previous sales history? If the latter, you are absolutely exposed to all these bidding schemes.

It is very simple for me. I set the highest price that I am comfortable in paying and submit it. If it goes above that price. I move on to the next auction of a like item. No science or woo involved in the decision making on my end. Just the bottom (or top) line for me.

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

It is very simple for me. I set the highest price that I am comfortable in paying and submit it. If it goes above that price. I move on to the next auction of a like item. No science or woo involved in the decision making on my end. Just the bottom (or top) line for me.

The question is how you arrive at that highest bid value. If you use prices previously paid on the same or similar cards in order to decide how much you are comfortable paying, then you are exposed to the shilling problem. If you use no historical sales data in deciding your highest price, but others bidding against you are using that historical pricing to make their bids, and you lose the item as a result, then you are still exposed to the problem.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by chadeast

The question is how you arrive at that highest bid value. If you use prices previously paid on the same or similar cards in order to decide how much you are comfortable paying, then you are exposed to the shilling problem. If you use no historical sales data in deciding your highest price, but others bidding against you are using that historical pricing to make their bids, and you lose the item as a result, then you are still exposed to the problem.

It is not that complicated, I set a price based simply on what I want to pay for the item. I am not exposed to anything. I set my price and if the bidding goes up to my price and I get the card at the high end, so be it and I get the card. I am not exposed to anything but the amount I am willing to pay. Nothing more, nothing less.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

It is not that complicated, I set a price based simply on what I want to pay for the item. I am not exposed to anything. I set my price and if the bidding goes up to my price and I get the card at the high end, so be it and I get the card. I am not exposed to anything but the amount I am willing to pay. Nothing more, nothing less.

That’s called being an “enabler”. Shillers prey on people like you because you are happy paying your highest price when, without shilling, you would get many items for much less.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

That’s called being an “enabler”. Shillers prey on people like you because you are happy paying your highest price when, without shilling, you would get many items for much less.

I am enabler....that is rich.

Scenario for you. Once card sells for x amount and has a buy it now price on it.

Another card starts out at y price then ends up at x price. (Both the same price).

What do you call that? No one enabled anyone with either sale of the card.

And in this scenario we are talking about the same card type just different methods of how it is sold.

Butch Turner

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

It is not that complicated, I set a price based simply on what I want to pay for the item. I am not exposed to anything. I set my price and if the bidding goes up to my price and I get the card at the high end, so be it and I get the card. I am not exposed to anything but the amount I am willing to pay. Nothing more, nothing less.

You like paying the absolute highest price you're comfortable with every time?

If you're willing to pay $100 for a card and someone lists it for $80, do you throw in an extra $20?

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You like paying the absolute highest price you're comfortable with every time?

If you're willing to pay $100 for a card and someone lists it for $80, do you throw in an extra $20?

Try not to be factious. Of course not. I would hope there was a make offer price and see what happened. But if the $80 price is what I am willing to pay what does it matter to anyone else? If it is a card I need or want. Sold American.

Seriously, this is not that hard to understand.

Butch Turner

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

It is very simple for me. I set the highest price that I am comfortable in paying and submit it. If it goes above that price. I move on to the next auction of a like item. No science or woo involved in the decision making on my end. Just the bottom (or top) line for me.

This sounds like the equivalent of walking into the car dealership and having the guy ask you "well, how much can you spend a month . . . "

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

This sounds like the equivalent of walking into the car dealership and having the guy ask you "well, how much can you spend a month . . . "

I beg to differ. Buying a car and buying a card are not the same in any shape or form. Buying a car is negotiating the best price for me.

Setting a high bid for a card is how much I want to pay for the card.

This is not rocket science in any shape or form. I set my buy price, if I get the item I am bidding on for that price, good for me. If it goes for less, good for me. If it goes for more, good for the person who bought it.

It is exactly that simple for me. YMMV