1919 Ruth vs 2021 Ohtani

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

I don't listen to anyone who thinks Mike Trout can start a lawnmower.

There's a box of rocks underneath that Angel's cap.

I am telling you he mastered it in 8th grade.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am telling you he mastered it in 8th grade.

Unless you have a Youtube video of this occurring (I'll accept a cellphone video as well) or a note from one of his neighbors I'm not convinced.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Unless you have a Youtube video of this occurring (I'll accept a cellphone video as well) or a note from one of his neighbors I'm not convinced.

How about a photoshopped image?

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How about a photoshopped image?

It'll have to due at this point because there ain't no other one out there.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

It'll have to due at this point because there ain't no other one out there.

If you don’t think this thread’s premise is valid, why not use your your creativity to start a thread you can understand. If not, just have another beverage, cheers.

[Shoeless Moe]

Doc Holiday,

The cry of Ruth didn't play against the best is just that.....a cry


Here's a few guys that played when Ruth played:

Honus Wagner
Ty Cobb
Christy Mathewson
Walter Johnson
Grover Cleveland Alexander
Lou Gehrig
Tris Speaker
Pie Traynor
Shoeless Joe Jackson
Nap Lajoie
George Sisler
Rogers Hornsby
Jimmie Foxx
Al Simmons
Lefty Grove
Dizzy Dean
Ed Walsh
Eddie Collins
Eddie Plank
Eddie Cicotte
Eddie Olczyk
Eddie Munster
Carl Hubbell
Frankie Frisch
Mickey Cochrane
Rabbit Maranville
Paul Waner
Lloyd Waner
Mel Ott
&
Hank Greenberg

and I'm sure I'm missing a few, but sure sounds like he played against the best to me.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

and I'm sure I'm missing a few, but sure sounds like he played against the best to me.

An interesting premise. So "the best" excludes every black player. Alrighty then.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Tabe

An interesting premise. So "the best" excludes every black player. Alrighty then.

And your premise is "what if" instead of "what was".

Did you want Ruth to change the mindset of the United States back then, I'm not quite sure he had the power to allow Black players to play in the MLB, that would have been the commissioner and others job?

Ruth's job was playing baseball. And Ruth played against the BEST that was playing.

If the Germans had a better game plan they would have won WWII right?

If someone else drafted Tom Brady then blah blah blah.

You can only play against who is playing. Maybe if Russell Wilson, Jamies Winston, John Elway, and many other chose baseball instead of football the talent level would be slightly better in baseball. So maybe THEE best arn't all in, just like back then.

Today 7% of MLBers are BLACK. Don't give me this Japan, Dominican, etc BS either, because they were not playing in the US back then regardless. More what if's. And that 7% is for 30 teams, so cut that in half like the number of teams and that's 3.5% Black players would play back then. I don't think that would alter the numbers/stats all that much.

Maybe if there were still 16 teams like in 1919 instead of 30 now the talent pool wouldn't be so diluted today, and we'd be watching super teams instead of watching the garbage Texas Rangers and Baltimore Orioles.

And would Ohtani even be pitching if there were only 16 teams, maybe maybe not, more what if's.

Go by what happened and what is happening, and what will happen.

Germans lost WWII

Babe Ruth was the greatest player of all time.

FACTS

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

And your premise is "what if" instead of "what was".

Did you want Ruth to change the mindset of the United States back then, I'm not quite sure he had the power to allow Black players to play in the MLB, that would have been the commissioner and others job?

Ruth's job was playing baseball. And Ruth played against the BEST that was playing.

If the Germans had a better game plan they would have won WWII right?

If someone else drafted Tom Brady then blah blah blah.

You can only play against who is playing. Maybe if Russell Wilson, Jamies Winston, Tom Elway, and many other chose baseball instead of football the talent level would be slightly better in baseball. So maybe THEE best arn't all in, just like back then.

Today 7% of MLBers are BLACK. Don't give me this Japan, Dominican, etc BS either, because they were not playing in the US back then regardless. More what if's. And that 7% is for 30 teams, so cut that in half like the number of teams and that's 3.5% Black players would play back then. I don't think that would alter the numbers/stats all that much.

Maybe if there were still 16 teams like in 1919 instead of 30 now the talent pool wouldn't be so diluted today, and we'd be watching super teams instead of watching the garbage Texas Rangers and Baltimore Orioles.

And would Ohtani even be pitching if there were only 16 teams, maybe maybe not, more what if's.

Go by what happened and what is happening, and what will happen.

Germans lost WWII

Babe Ruth was the greatest player of all time.

FACTS

I agree with you completely, but you can't get through to these guys, no matter what you come up with or say. They are loaded with today's facts and stats. They've had big drinks of the sacred Kool-Aid. Today's ballplayers are just so much better, never mind Jacoby Ellsberry and Giancarlo "don't call me Mike" Stanton, neither of which can get over their hangnails, but can sure draw a big paycheck. Obviously MLB was Wiffel Ball back when Ruth played. Walter "The Big Train" Johnson was really throwing slow-pitch softballs. All other pitchers were tossing even slower, maybe even placing T-balls. Ray Chapman didn't die from being hit in the head from one of those balls of fluff, he died of fright.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I agree with you completely, but you can't get through to these guys, no matter what you come up with or say. They are loaded with today's facts and stats. They've had big drinks of the sacred Kool-Aid. Today's ballplayers are just so much better, never mind Jacoby Ellsberry and Giancarlo "don't call me Mike" Stanton, neither of which can get over their hangnails, but can sure draw a big paycheck. Obviously MLB was Wiffel Ball back when Ruth played. Walter "The Big Train" Johnson was really throwing slow-pitch softballs. All other pitchers were tossing even slower, maybe even placing T-balls. Ray Chapman didn't die from being hit in the head from one of those balls of fluff, he died of fright.

I guess it was recently the anniversary of when Nolan Ryan showed Robin Ventura that yesterday's stars are stronger than the young guns think. My 8yo son sure enjoyed the video. I think that's symbolic of this argument about Ohtani and Ruth.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I agree with you completely, but you can't get through to these guys, no matter what you come up with or say. They are loaded with today's facts and stats. They've had big drinks of the sacred Kool-Aid. Today's ballplayers are just so much better, never mind Jacoby Ellsberry and Giancarlo "don't call me Mike" Stanton, neither of which can get over their hangnails, but can sure draw a big paycheck. Obviously MLB was Wiffel Ball back when Ruth played. Walter "The Big Train" Johnson was really throwing slow-pitch softballs. All other pitchers were tossing even slower, maybe even placing T-balls. Ray Chapman didn't die from being hit in the head from one of those balls of fluff, he died of fright.

No one ever said any of this... drama queen much?

No one ever said pitchers were lobbing softballs up to the plate or throwing Little League speed... unless you know Little Leaguers throwing 85 mph... sign 'em up!

But Johnson's pitches were recorded and measured at 89 mph. And you can certainly die from being hit in the head by an 85 mph fastball. Why is it so hard for you to accept that pitchers in 1900-1920 weren't throwing 95-100 mph gas all game long? You still haven't explained to any of us how these guys were piling up 300-400 innings year after year, pitching complete games every third day all season long? Throwing 95-100 all game and not breaking down? And, for the most part, they were smaller than men of today and not as well trained. Uh huh... here's a clue: they played in the Dead Ball Era. The ball didn't carry... so they didn't have to throw as hard. Players used much heavier bats to just get the bat on the ball, easier when it was being thrown 80-85. Walter Johnson only struck out 5 in every 9 innings... and when the live ball era started in the 1920s, pitchers had to throw harder more often and as a result, innings pitched came down and batters went to lighter bats so they could get around on pitches. Which part of this is illogical to you?

And the OP simply stated that Ohtani was doing something that hadn't been done since Ruth in 1919... pitching in the regular rotation and playing and hitting in games where he wasn't pitching. Which is true. No one ever said that Ohtani was or will be a better player than Ruth, or that his 2021 season is better than Ruth's. Just that he is doing something we haven't seen in 100+ years. I don't know how people have misinterpreted what Frank originally wrote so badly.