1919 Ruth vs 2021 Ohtani

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by Snowman

There are several important differences about how the game was played and what the ballpark dimensions were in Babe Ruth's era that are probably worth mentioning.

As someone noted above, there were some parks that were massive. Westside Grounds was 560' to center field (but Ruth didn't play there), and Boston's Huntington Avenue Grounds was an astonishing 635' to center field (but again, Ruth never played there. This was before his time).

The game itself was completely different back then though. It was all about getting on base and advancing runners. Players would bunt or chop the ball (the "Baltimore Chop") to get on base and then try to steal 2nd and 3rd nearly every time. Stolen base numbers from that era will never be duplicated. Nobody even tried to hit home runs back then. It was considered a fool's errand. The balls were "dead". They'd use the same ball for almost the entire game. Fans had to throw them back if they caught a foul ball to keep the game going. They'd basically use the same ball until the cover came off. When Ruth came along and started hitting home runs (remember, he led the league with 11 HRs in 1918) it wasn't seen as a winning strategy. So when he started crushing homers in 1919 and 1920, he was also one of only a few people who were even trying to do it. All the other players were still trying to bunt/chop/slash their way on base so they could steal 2nd and 3rd and get bunted home. But Babe Ruth was too fat and slow to run the bases, so he knew if he was going to score he'd have to hit it out of the park or get a double and rely on someone else to bring him in. It was a different mentality. You can't really compare the number of home runs he hit to the other players at that time because they simply weren't trying to hit them.

In 1919 when Babe Ruth hit 29 home runs for Boston, only 9 of those were at Fenway Park, the other 20 were on the road. At the time, Fenway had a 313.5' right field. And remember, Ruth was a left-handed pull hitter. The vast majority of his home runs were down the right-field line. They only played against 7 different teams during the regular season back then. And in 1919, Polo Grounds had a right-field fence of 258' and Sportsman's Park was 270'.

Also, pitching was a lot different back then. Walter Johnson was king. He threw serious heat for the era (measured at 89 mph, though some anecdotal tales estimate that he threw in the 90s). Nobody could hit him. Everyone else? Most of these guys threw fastballs in the low to mid-80s on a good day, and the best of the best were throwing high 80s. Players struck out because of spitballs and "emery board balls", not because of heat.

It was just an entirely different game. You simply cannot compare the eras. Ruth was the GOAT, no question. I'm not trying to discredit his accomplishments or abilities. I'm just saying you simply can't make fair comparisons across different eras. People try to do the same with Wilt Chamberlain and modern basketball greats. Wilt played against 6'2" white guys from the YMCA. It just wasn't the same game.

The quality of bats and balls make a huge difference as well. Equipment, nutrition, modern sports medicine, everything has come a long way since then.

My 2 cents.

Walter Johnson was measured at 89 mph? I’ve never read that… do you have a source for that?

[packs]

There's no reason to believe that the most dominant major league pitchers were only throwing in the low 80s. Rube Waddell was a freight train. I highly doubt he struck out all those guys throwing high school fast balls.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In 1917, a Bridgeport, Connecticut munitions laboratory recorded Johnson's fastball at 134 feet per second,which is equal to 91 miles per hour (146 km/h), a velocity that may have been unmatched in his day, with the possible exception of Smoky Joe Wood.

And this.
https://theaceofspaeder.com/2019/01/...-threw-88-mph/

[packs]

Bob Feller debuts 20 years later. Had the arm come that far in that time? I don't think people generally view Feller as throwing in the high 80s.

[packs]

double post

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In 1917, a Bridgeport, Connecticut munitions laboratory recorded Johnson's fastball at 134 feet per second,which is equal to 91 miles per hour (146 km/h), a velocity that may have been unmatched in his day, with the possible exception of Smoky Joe Wood.

And this.
https://theaceofspaeder.com/2019/01/...-threw-88-mph/

Very interesting - thanks. Likely that Johnson had lost a few mph off his fastball by 1919, so maybe he threw around 93 at his peak.

Feller was timed at @ 98 mph.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by packs

There's no reason to believe that the most dominant major league pitchers were only throwing in the low 80s. Rube Waddell was a freight train. I highly doubt he struck out all those guys throwing high school fast balls.

It's not completely crazy - these guys were swinging bats that were extremely heavy. Joe Jackson's weighed 48oz. Ruth used a 42oz model before switching to a 38oz model. Cobb used bats that weighed up to 40oz. Mike Trout, by contrast, uses a bat that weighs 30oz.

[Peter_Spaeth]

3509K, but it took him 5914 IP. So he was striking out what, 5.3 per 9 innings. Koufax, by contrast, was over 9.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

It's not completely crazy - these guys were swinging bats that were extremely heavy. Joe Jackson's weighed 48oz. Ruth used a 42oz model before switching to a 38oz model. Cobb used bats that weighed up to 40oz. Mike Trout, by contrast, uses a bat that weighs 30oz.

Mike Trout isn't using anything as he sits and sits and sits and sits some more.

He missed 39 games in 2017 with a torn thumb ligament. He missed 19 games in 2018 because of wrist inflammation. He missed 19 more games in 2019 after foot surgery. And now he’s expected to miss six to eight weeks in 2021 with a calf strain, suffered while jogging on the basepaths Monday night.

That six to eight weeks, of course, is now running longer.

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2021/5...aking-pursuits

[packs]

Originally Posted by Tabe

It's not completely crazy - these guys were swinging bats that were extremely heavy. Joe Jackson's weighed 48oz. Ruth used a 42oz model before switching to a 38oz model. Cobb used bats that weighed up to 40oz. Mike Trout, by contrast, uses a bat that weighs 30oz.

Yeah but it's still a human body. Look at photos of Gehrig. The guy never stepped into a modern gym in his life but he was a brick.

[doug.goodman]

I believe that this m113 supplement was originally issued in April 1915, the caption has Johnson throwing at 122 feet per second, which equates to 83 mph

[mrreality68]

Great information on the pitching speeds of the pictures in those days. I never knew some of them actually had the pitches speed determined in those ways.
Amazing

[Peter_Spaeth]

Nobody ever claims that Howie Morenz and Eddie Shore were in the same class as Gretzky and Orr, or that Nat Holman and George Mikan were remotely las good as Jordan and Jabbar, or that Red Grange was the equal of Jim Brown. What is it about baseball that makes people so romanticize the ancients and to insist they were better, or equal, in absolute terms?