Was Casey Stengel a good manager?

[Mark17]

He won the pennant in 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1960. How much more does a guy have to accomplish to be called "good?"

No manager can win without good players, but a lot of managers can lose with them. Stengel did more than his share of winning.

As has been mentioned before, he also saved Larsen's WS perfect game by moving Mantle over into left center right before Hodges crushed it there.

Although......... I think Stengel blew the 1960 World Series.

[tedzan]

As a very young dude, and an avid Yankees fan, I saw "K.C." Stengel a lot on our small TV (or live at Yankee Stadium). From when he came to NY to manage the Yankees in 1949 to 1960.
I recall that the NY Sports media (in the Spring of "49) mocked him and referred to him as a "clown". Whatever, but by the Fall of 1953, Casey Stengel certainly had the "last laugh".
I venture to say that the 5 consecutive World Championships under his leadership may be a record that will never be broken in Baseball.

Casey was a "genius". I could fill up this page with stories of how Stengel "orchestrated" his players and pitchers which resulted in numerous victories. However, the most impressive
example which comes to mind is how Stengel utilized his Ace relief-pitcher, Joe Page in 1949. Stengel brought Page in to relieve in 60 games. Page Won 13 games, and Saved 27.
Furthermore, there were times when Stengel did not hesitate to bring Page into the game as early as the 6th inning. Page would "Shut-Out" the opposing team for 4 innings.





TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Casey's Managerial record speaks for itself. Casey's playing Stats (1912 - 1925)......

Casey's career BA = .284 (not too bad). And, definitely a clutch hitter in World Series play...…BA = .393

1916 WS.....BA = .364

1922 WS.....BA = .400

1923 WS.....BA = .417, RBI = 4, HR = 2 (both were inside-the-park)


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[SteveWhite]

Could the same be said about Joe Torre? I know he won a National League West championship with the Braves in 1982. Before he got to the Yankees, they had a long time between championships.

For the record, I think Stengel and Torre are both great managers. All teams have talent, but the team has to work out a lot of things to that championship level.

[Seven]

I appreciate everyone responding to my post, It's good to hear all these opinions especially from some of the members who were alive when Stengal was actually managing.

ted, to your point I have read about Stengel utilizing the bullpen in a unique way, at least at the time. Peter, that story about Mantle and Stengel testifying is something I never heard, and to your point I would probably agree, then again Weaver was one of a kind!

Mark, I'd agree about 1960, him choosing Ditmar to start did the Yankees in that series. While I don't think the game was passing him by, I struggle to understand why he didn't go with Ford in game 1. Maybe he had a gut feeling or something? Who knows.

Frank, I'd agree. He wasn't conventional but certainly got some good results. We all could wonder what would have happened had a different manager taken the reins of the Yankees in the late 40's. Had McCarthy not had a drinking problem or had ownership either stuck with Dickey or Bucky Harris, I wonder how the 50's would have gone.

[tedzan]

Hi James

Continuing this conversation......

Casey Stengel played with the NY Giants (1921 - 1925). John McGraw took a liking to Stengel, and was a mentor to Stengel. In the 1940's, Stengel was the Manager for
the Oakland Oaks (PCL), and he mentored Billy Martin. Subsequently, Billy Martin became the Manager for Minnesota, Detroit, Texas, Yankees, Oakland, and Yankees. All
three of them, more or less, had the same style of playing the game and Managing.

I've always found this legacy (McGraw > Stengel > Martin) very interesting.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[egri]

Something I didn't know about Stengel until I did some more reading prompted by this thread was Yankee management had been looking to replace him as early as 1957, in favor of Ralph Houk. The opportunity didn't arise for a few years; his contract didn't end until 1958, and coming off a World Series win they had to give him another two years.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi James

Continuing this conversation......

Casey Stengel played with the NY Giants (1921 - 1925). John McGraw took a liking to Stengel, and was a mentor to Stengel. In the 1940's, Stengel was the Manager for
the Oakland Oaks (PCL), and he mentored Billy Martin. Subsequently, Billy Martin became the Manager for Minnesota, Detroit, Texas, Yankees, Oakland, and Yankees. All
three of them, more or less, had the same style of playing the game and Managing.

I've always found this legacy (McGraw > Stengel > Martin) very interesting.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Ted,

McGraw, Stengal and Martin all had larger than life personalities. It's a shame about Billy. Was still fairly young when he tragically passed. I remember reading there were talks that George was going to bring him back for another time to manage the Yankees again.

On the subject of him dying, makes me think about Whitey Ford a bit. Martin passing in 89, then Mickey a few years later, his buddies all passing before him must have hit him hard.

- James

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who but Billy Martin would have pulled Reggie from right field in the middle of an inning on national TV?

[insidethewrapper]

If a manager has great players he is a great manager. If he has poor players he is a poor manager. Just check any high school, college or professional team. Has talent = wins, manager is great. Next year, talent leaves = last place. Stengel first place with the Yankees and last place with the Mets.

There are stories that Stengel asked the pitching coach to put a player in for relief and that player was not even on the team.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who but Billy Martin would have pulled Reggie from right field in the middle of an inning on national TV?

Gil Hodges did the same to Cleon Jones when he was managing the Mets.