1919 Ruth vs 2021 Ohtani

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by G1911

The first post is directly comparing their numbers without regard to the context in which they happened, though. It's not really nitpicking to observe the titanic gulf between offense in 1919 and 2021 that makes directly comparing non-contextual statistics extremely misleading.

Ruth was a much, much better offensive season than Ohtani's in context, but worse pitching (His ERA was 2% better than the league). Ruth's season changed how the offensive game has been played ever since; we shall see if Ohtani has any real effect.

Yes, Ruth was much much better, blah, blah, blah, nobody disagrees with you (probably), and Ohtani will probably have no real effect in changing the offensive structure of the game. Ok got it, let's ignore you ignoring the point of Frank's post and allow me to ask you a single question :

What other player, in what other season since 1919 has done anything that could be even remotely compared to Ruth in 1919?

If your answer is "there isn't one" than you are acknowledging that "There is really no other season comparable to 2021 Ohtani since 1919".

I would suggest that it is nitpicking to point out how great Ruth was, the initial post was just saying that nobody compares to The Babe but this Ohtani kid has come closer than anybody in terms of all around pitching & hitting prowess.

Doug "Astutely picking my own Nits" Goodman

[mrreality68]

Ruth vs Ohtani

What Ohtani is doing is amazing this season. His ability and potential is off the charts.
I look forward to watching and enjoying his career.
It is a little disappointing he is on a "Small Market" West Coast team because we on the East Coast miss most of the games and can only see the highlights
Also MLB does not do much to promote their stars so we miss out on that. Although internationally the International Press drives that exposure and he is followed from city to city with alot of international press.
The hope is he stays healthy and lives up to the Hype and potential. This year is great but the past several years health has been an issue and he has missed alot of time.

There will never be another Ruth but I hope we get the The Ohtani that we all want to see

[christopher.herman]

This is stolen verbatim from a quote Babe would give later in the 1918 season: "I don't think a man can pitch in his regular turn and play some other position and keep the pace year after year. I can do it this season all right. I'm young and strong and don't mind the work, but I wouldn't guarantee to do it for many seasons."

[Shoeless Moe]

Funny how the Angels have the 2 greatest players of all time (he said sarcastically) yet they SUCK ASS year after year.

And neither of those players will ever sniff a World Series unless they leave that SHIT HOLE and even then may never, just like Bryce Harper! LOVE IT!!!!

Don't forget to put that in your comparison chart!!!!!

[darwinbulldog]

I don't see anyone catching him in the who-deserves-the-MVP race this year, but if they can give it to Miggy over Trout for a triple crown season they could give it to Vlad Jr. over Ohtani for a triple crown season. That would of course require him to overtake Ohtani in the HR race, which isn't all that likely, but if Joey Votto can hit 8 HRs in 6 days (spoiler: he can) I wouldn't count out Vlad.

[packs]

Ohtani is really good but people should stop comparing him to Babe Ruth. Yes, Babe Ruth pitched too, but he was the greatest player in history. Unlikely ever to be topped.

In 1935 Wes Ferrell hit 342 with 7 homers, 32 RBIs and a 960 OPS while leading the league in wins, complete games and innings pitched. But he was not Babe Ruth either.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There's a pervasive bias on this forum against newer players, in my opinion. Ask almost anyone here for their all time team or all time top 15 players and nobody who came up post 1980 will be on it I would bet.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There's a pervasive bias on this forum against newer players, in my opinion. Ask almost anyone here for their all time team or all time top 15 players and nobody who came up post 1980 will be on it I would bet.

I'm not against modern players but this is Babe Ruth. No one is ever going to be Babe Ruth. But also Ohtani is good this year. He was pretty terrible in 2020 and not all that inspiring in 2019 either. I think it's a little premature to be talking about him as an all time great.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There's a pervasive bias on this forum against newer players, in my opinion. Ask almost anyone here for their all time team or all time top 15 players and nobody who came up post 1980 will be on it I would bet.

This is where you talked about the all time team in a thread about Ohtani.

Anyway, I think when people say Babe Ruth it's to bring a false prestige to the conversation. Ohtani is not like Babe Ruth. Nobody will be. But he is having a great season and doing incredible things on the field. His season should be talked about in those terms.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There's a pervasive bias on this forum against newer players, in my opinion. Ask almost anyone here for their all time team or all time top 15 players and nobody who came up post 1980 will be on it I would bet.

There is, but I'd still guess most people here would have Bonds and Clemens somewhere in their top 15. Nobody else who came up since 1980 belongs in that discussion yet.

[vintagewhitesox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There's a pervasive bias on this forum against newer players, in my opinion. Ask almost anyone here for their all time team or all time top 15 players and nobody who came up post 1980 will be on it I would bet.

Well said.
Also, when Ruth played, there was a large segment of players who were not allowed to play in the majors.
If Ruth had to play against the negro league all stars of his time, would he be as dominant? He was great for his time, and Im not taking anything away from him. but I dont think it's a fair comparison given the lack of opposition Ruth had.
Ruth didnt play coast to coast or face night pitching. What Otani is doing now has never been seen.

[profholt82]

Originally Posted by christopher.herman

This is stolen verbatim from a quote Babe would give later in the 1918 season: "I don't think a man can pitch in his regular turn and play some other position and keep the pace year after year. I can do it this season all right. I'm young and strong and don't mind the work, but I wouldn't guarantee to do it for many seasons."

Ruth likely would have pitched for many years if the DH had existed.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Yes, Ruth was much much better, blah, blah, blah, nobody disagrees with you (probably), and Ohtani will probably have no real effect in changing the offensive structure of the game. Ok got it, let's ignore you ignoring the point of Frank's post and allow me to ask you a single question :

What other player, in what other season since 1919 has done anything that could be even remotely compared to Ruth in 1919?

If your answer is "there isn't one" than you are acknowledging that "There is really no other season comparable to 2021 Ohtani since 1919".

I would suggest that it is nitpicking to point out how great Ruth was, the initial post was just saying that nobody compares to The Babe but this Ohtani kid has come closer than anybody in terms of all around pitching & hitting prowess.

Doug "Astutely picking my own Nits" Goodman

I didn’t even say Ruth was better, I said he was a better hitter in context but a worse pitcher in context. I doubt Ohtani changes the game significantly for the next century as Ruth did, but a reasoned case for Ohtani could be made if one values the pitching more and limits the argument into the confines of the season only.

I would agree with the claim that there are parallels and it is the first significant hitter and pitcher season since Ruth in 1919. But this was not the argument that was actually given, read the OP, it is almost entirely a direct comparison of their statistics stripped of environment context. No one is saying Ohtani is not having a great year, or that there are not parallels, some of us are saying the comparison given should not be stripped of all context. It is not unreasonable to reply to the argument and comparison that is actually put forth. It is not “ignoring the point” to directly address the bulk of the content actually posted.