PSA completely unethical

[sreader3]

I still chuckle about the title of this thread.

Most people use PSA because their expectancy value is higher than their grading fees, discounted for inflation and risks of loss. Taking a highly simplified example, if you have a raw card worth $1000 and you think there is a 50% chance it will be worth $2000 after grading and a 50% chance it will be worth $1000 after grading, your expectancy value is $1500 less grading fees, inflation (while you wait) and risks of loss. Let's say inflation and risks of loss total $200, reducing your expectancy value to $1300. You will still pay up to $300 in grading fees (maybe somewhat less if you are risk averse, as most of us are) because your expectancy value will still be greater than the value of your ungraded card.

I am sure there are collectors who have legitimate moral concerns about PSA but this is how many people, myself included (and probably PSA) view the situation.

In sum, it's fine to complain about how PSA has "screwed" collectors, but that sentiment needs to be balanced against the value that PSA has created for collectors.

And, no, I am not on PSA's "payroll." I have met Joe Orlando and David Hall but neither one ever offered me a dime. I do, however, have cards that are worth a lot more because they are in PSA holders.

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by sreader3

I still chuckle about the title of this thread.

Most people use PSA because their expectancy value is higher than their grading fees, discounted for inflation and risks of loss. Taking a highly simplified example, if you have a raw card worth $1000 and you think there is a 50% chance it will be worth $2000 after grading and a 50% chance it will be worth $1000 after grading, your expectancy value is $1500 less grading fees, inflation (while you wait) and risks of loss. Let's say inflation and risks of loss total $200, reducing your expectancy value to $1300. You will still pay up to $300 in grading fees (maybe somewhat less if you are risk averse, as most of us are) because your expectancy value will still be greater than the value of your ungraded card.

I am sure there are collectors who have legitimate moral concerns about PSA but this is how many people, myself included (and probably PSA) view the situation.

In sum, it's fine to complain about how PSA has "screwed" collectors, but that sentiment needs to be balanced against the value that PSA has created for collectors.

And, no, I am not on PSA's "payroll." I have met Joe Orlando and David Hall but neither one ever offered me a dime. I do, however, have cards that are worth a lot more because they are in PSA holders.

And your point is what? Mr. Chuckle. As I said I collect track and field cards (hardly an investment decision) I just wanted some nice cards encapsulated. No cards here that I am boasting are worth 50K. So yes they are screwing the average person who does not make a living buying and selling (investing) in cardboard.

[sreader3]

My name is not "Mr. Chuckle." Please do not engage in ad hominem. It just makes you look bad. If you are not happy with PSA , I suggest that you use other grading services.

Edited to add: I think it's cool that you collect track and field cards. I love 20th century American ephemera from T206 to Warhol paintings. Good luck with your collecting pursuits.

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by sreader3

My name is not "Mr. Chuckle." Please do not engage in ad hominem. It just makes you look bad. If you are not happy with PSA , I suggest that you use other grading services.

regardless of how i look. PSA is a down the line company and if the economy fell apart tomorrow they would be done and all the cards on this board would not be worth the heat they would generate if lit on fire. PSA should be grateful for the business. so posit whatever you want. PSA should do their job. end of story

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by jkm412

regardless of how i look. PSA is a down the line company and if the economy fell apart tomorrow they would be done and all the cards on this board would not be worth the heat they would generate if lit on fire. PSA should be grateful for the business. so posit whatever you want. PSA should do their job. end of story

I agree that PSA should "do their job." And I think they do. They make very serious mistakes, like grading the T206 Doyle (N.Y. Nat'l) Polar Bear which I pointed out to David Hall personally (although after they had already corrected the error and made amends). But they try to get it right--even though they blow it sometimes. If the economy falls apart tomorrow, I think all of the cards on this board will still be worth far more than the heat they would generate if lit on fire. So I will keep mine. Light yours on fire if you want.

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by sreader3

I agree that PSA should "do their job." And I think they do. They make very serious mistakes, like grading the T206 Doyle (N.Y. Nat'l) Polar Bear which I pointed out to David Hall personally (although after they had already corrected the error and made amends). But they try to get it right--even though they blow it sometimes. If the economy falls apart tomorrow, I think all of the cards on this board will still be worth far more than the heat they would generate if lit on fire. So I will keep mine. Light yours on fire if you want.

they do not do their job. unless their job is fantasy. they have left the average collector behind. they got caught up or created the REA auction frenzy. this is another form of crypto currency. inflated values with no true underlying value. in fact they have left vintage cards behind. can a Tom Brady autographed card really be worth $1 million dollars. Come on now. there are people who do real work in this world. this will end in tears.

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by jkm412

regardless of how i look. PSA is a down the line company and if the economy fell apart tomorrow they would be done and all the cards on this board would not be worth the heat they would generate if lit on fire. PSA should be grateful for the business. so posit whatever you want. PSA should do their job. end of story

I think this was disproven in March 2020 when the economy was toast and cards shot up in value

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

I think this was disproven in March 2020 when the economy was toast and cards shot up in value

And now cards have shot back down in value.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

And now cards have shot back down in value.

Except, of course, the cards I've been shopping for.