T227 Purple

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by G1911

Still looking for evidence that ALC/ATC partnership cards can possibly fade from black to purple, (black to brown I know), have found nothing in any set thus far that suggests they can or do. 2 other T227 collectors I've shown mine too have found purple's in their stacks, but that doesn't solidify whether it left the factory this way.

I'm pretty sure no one here is that interested in discussing color theory, but anyhow, here are some ideas to think about.

I think it is very possible that there is a variation that you describe coming from the printing of these cards. True black is something that we haven't achieved yet, to my knowledge, here on Earth. Check out this link that discusses carbon nanotubes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_nanotube

These color differences that we perceive on the backs of some of these cards, in my opinion, really are nothing more than variations of black in some cases. Yes, there is a clear difference visible, so for the sake of discussing cards they are different. Certainly information can be gathered about print runs and the different ink batches used. In my opinion, some of these variations of black are the same as the variations seen with Sovereign green and Piedmont blue cards. It's unsurprising that there are different formulations of black, just like with green and blue, or other colors. I know some will not agree that different variations of black exist. I'm just not convinced that every time we see something that doesn't look like a nice dark black it means that it was ink intended for something else. It's possible in some cases, sure, but it's also known that not all black looks the same.

Check out some of these different types of black, many appear blue, brown, purple, etc.:
https://simplicable.com/new/black-color

Again, yes they appear different to the eye and indeed are, so conclusions can be drawn about them in the card world. At the end of the day, I think this is why it is challenging to say if an Old Mill is "brown" or "black" when examining them on a computer screen. Differences in hand? Sure. Could the wrong ink have been used? Possibly. Could the ink have been mixed a little differently like with the Sovereign greens and Piedmont blues? Yep.

There are numerous ways to produce "black" ink. Was there clear intent to make Sovereigns different greens? Clear intent to make Piedmonts different blues?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by oldeboo

I'm pretty sure no one here is that interested in discussing color theory, but anyhow, here are some ideas to think about.

I think it is very possible that there is a variation that you describe coming from the printing of these cards. True black is something that we haven't achieved yet, to my knowledge, here on Earth. Check out this link that discusses carbon nanotubes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_nanotube

These color differences that we perceive on the backs of some of these cards, in my opinion, really are nothing more than variations of black in some cases. Yes, there is a clear difference visible, so for the sake of discussing cards they are different. Certainly information can be gathered about print runs and the different ink batches used. In my opinion, some of these variations of black are the same as the variations seen with Sovereign green and Piedmont blue cards. It's unsurprising that there are different formulations of black, just like with green and blue, or other colors. I know some will not agree that different variations of black exist. I'm just not convinced that every time we see something that doesn't look like a nice dark black it means that it was ink intended for something else. It's possible in some cases, sure, but it's also known that not all black looks the same.

Check out some of these different types of black, many appear blue, brown, purple, etc.:
https://simplicable.com/new/black-color

Again, yes they appear different to the eye and indeed are, so conclusions can be drawn about them in the card world. At the end of the day, I think this is why it is challenging to say if an Old Mill is "brown" or "black" when examining them on a computer screen. Differences in hand? Sure. Could the wrong ink have been used? Possibly. Could the ink have been mixed a little differently like with the Sovereign greens and Piedmont blues? Yep.

There are numerous ways to produce "black" ink. Was there clear intent to make Sovereigns different greens? Clear intent to make Piedmonts different blues?

I know color theory is not that interesting to most, but I'm not talking about different shades of Piedmont blue, but two completely different colors. Like Old Mill Blue, though I guess most of us only care for T206.

There may not have been intent to make different Piedmont blue's or sovereign greens, but there was surely intent to make them blue and green. Black and light purple are pretty far apart on the color spectrum, that's the difference I'm talking about, two very distinctly different colors in the box of crayons, and if it left the factory that way, not varying shades of the same color that every set and large print run will produce.

[oldeboo]

It is certainly an intriguing find and it will be interesting to see what else surfaces with these. I think of the T210 series 3 as well. Some of those fronts are very clearly orange and some very clearly red, with shades in between. It is my opinion that the intent was to make them all red, but a mistake happened and they let them through.

On the other side, you have the T206 OMSL browns that were hand cut and clearly scraps or mistakes that were caught. However, many of the T206 OMSL appear brownish when compared to the standard OMs in T206. The ones that get designated as brown are different though. The explanation of how you go from a brown to a brownish black is probably pretty simple.

Again, it's interesting and if the sample size grows it should tell us more. There is probably a simple answer on how you go from purplish to black. I would think it is possible that it was some sort of corrected mistake. They look neat, I can confirm that.

[Pat R]

I think they are probably a different color ink. I don't think they would have been to concerned how exact the ink colors were.

I don't think the ink would fade from black to purple and I'm not so sure the black fades to brown either.

[G1911]

After 2 years, I am much more comfortable stating that it is indeed a different back. I would estimate something like 20-33% of Honest Long Cut's are of this variety, but a 2 year sample from one collector is not particularly huge or conclusive. It is not a difference big enough to be particularly interesting to most collectors like Hindu Brown vs. Hindu Red, but it seems to be a genuinely different and third back. If it was fading or environmental conditions, it would be very unlikely to be a shading exclusive to T227 and it is difficult to see how black would fade or age into a purpley-grey hue anyways.

I am looking for more back images of Rodgers and Brown in particular. The Brown in the non-sport gallery is the purpley back.

[Kidnapped18]

Interesting observation Greg! I have a couple of handfuls of T227 so I will check mine out to see what I come up with.

Will it be on the Honest Long Cuts only? Or will the purple be on the Miners Extra? I have both backs

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

Interesting observation Greg! I have a couple of handfuls of T227 so I will check mine out to see what I come up with.

Will it be on the Honest Long Cuts only? Or will the purple be on the Miners Extra? I have both backs

Only on the Honest Long Cut's. Miner's Extra, and any other black ink back from the ATC sets, doesn't come in this purpley hue. Thankfully, doing this set in master form is going to crush my wallet with 3 backs, 4 would be even worse!