Let's talk about Hall of Fame candidates who have been "neglected"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Cecil Travis

I don't think you can make assumptions about years someone never played, although obviously before the war he was headed in that direction. If I recall Kenny Cole and I debated this one a while back. Knowing Kenny, he probably thinks he won lol.

[Jason19th]

Firpo Marberry should be in as the first great relief pitcher. 148 wins, 99 saves and a .627 winning percentage. Was Rollie Fingers before Rollie was even born.

[FrankWakefield]

I think the Hall wasn't too far off track when I was a kid...

I recall a book My Greatest Day in Baseball, by Carmichael, I read it several times as a kid; one time I read it and then started and finished it a second time... Most of Those guys belonged in the Hall, and most of those guys were the only ones who belonged in the Hall.

I agree with:

O'Doul
Dahlen
Kaat

I'd DEFINETLY add Ed Reulbach

I could live with Travis Jackson and Joe Wood

No to Lofton, Schilling, A Jones... and others.

Hodges and Murphy were REALLY good guys; but to me they fall a bit short and that 'good guy' and 'deserving' sentiment doesn't and shouldn't tip the scales. Dick Allen wasn't a good guy, but wasn't as bad as some think, I could almost live with him getting in.

I'm a Cardinals fan, starting with seeing Mr. Musial play in 1963. Boyer was a dependable RBI / cleanup hitter in 1964... but he falls a bit short of what I think of as Hall standards. I think Molina will get in, I'm definitely a Molina fan, but I'm thinking he's right at the threshold and needs a bit more...

It's not little league soccer where everyone plays, everyone is included, everyone gets to play a lot, everyone gets a gold star, and everyone gets a trophy. There's already a couple of dozen that I think should have never gone in, and that's realistically unfixable. Let's not compound that by adding more sow's ears to what should have been only silk purses.

[G1911]

If Reulbach is a HOFer, I don't see how Schilling isn't, statistically.

[FrankWakefield]

Get a copy of Bill James' Historical Baseball Abstract and read the two page article "Ed Who"

First edition...

[G1911]

I've read it. Reulbach was a fine pitcher. He pitched almost 1,000 innings less than Schilling, with an ERA higher after you adjust for context. I have a hard time seeing how he is a HOFer and Schilling is not still.

[shagrotn77]

Gil Hodges is probably the most glaring omission IMO. Of course, he actually got in in 1994, only to have Ted Williams deny the deciding vote in an act of pure evil, but I digress. I'm not as high on Dahlen as many others are, but I hope he gets in since I have his Mayo rookie . In terms of modern players whose candidacies have been neglected, I'll go with Fred McGriff. He was a model of consistency and if he had hit just 7 more HR, he probably would have been first ballot.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who here of a certain age didn't think back in the day that Steve Garvey was a lock HOFer? The metrics really were not kind to him.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

Gil Hodges is probably the most glaring omission IMO. Of course, he actually got in in 1994, only to have Ted Williams deny the deciding vote in an act of pure evil -

Yep, Hodges is definitely a "glaring" omission - Next chance for him will be in December 2021 when candidates from the "Golden Days" era (1950–1969) are once again considered.....

One of my favorites -

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

Gil Hodges is probably the most glaring omission IMO. .

Gil is a perfect argument against a lot of the players we are discussing here. When you combine his managerial and player record he looks like a hall of fame, however voters are not supposed to vote on anyone as a player/manager. His stats are light as a 50s 1st basemen...not in comparison to the league but in comparison to the established powerhitting HOFers. It wouldn't be a travesty if he were in neither is it one that he's not. Never really lead the league in anything all that significant, WAR well below the established level for firstbasemen, he had a lot of All Star appearances, but so did Ed Bailey. After his career he was Really nice player but you have to be a big hall guy to let him in. He was an under .500 manager, but did get the Mets an amazing world series, so there's that. He would have likely climbed in his win % had he not died young.

Some people will argue he lost years to the war. That's conjecture...he probably didn't miss much time but even if he did you can't make assumptions on "what if." If you're going to do it for Thurman Munson and Gil Hodges you have to do it for Vida Blue and Tony Conigliario.

One other thing. He was only 47 when he died, which is tragic, but I have neve seen a picture of him, even from his early days when he looked younger than 47.

[cardsagain74]

Colavito.

Had the same career numbers as Gil Hodges despite playing in pitchers' parks (so his career OPS+ is a lot higher).

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Colavito.

Had the same career numbers as Gil Hodges despite playing in pitchers' parks (so his career OPS+ is a lot higher).

I love this post. Don't knock the Rock! Rocky is still alive and well and I would expect that it galls him to see guys like Baines, Ted Simmons, Tim Raines, Larry Walker have gotten in.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I think the Hall wasn't too far off track when I was a kid...

I recall a book My Greatest Day in Baseball, by Carmichael, I read it several times as a kid; one time I read it and then started and finished it a second time... Most of Those guys belonged in the Hall, and most of those guys were the only ones who belonged in the Hall.

I agree with:

O'Doul
Dahlen
Kaat

I'd DEFINETLY add Ed Reulbach

I could live with Travis Jackson and Joe Wood

No to Lofton, Schilling, A Jones... and others.

Hodges and Murphy were REALLY good guys; but to me they fall a bit short and that 'good guy' and 'deserving' sentiment doesn't and shouldn't tip the scales. Dick Allen wasn't a good guy, but wasn't as bad as some think, I could almost live with him getting in.

I'm a Cardinals fan, starting with seeing Mr. Musial play in 1963. Boyer was a dependable RBI / cleanup hitter in 1964... but he falls a bit short of what I think of as Hall standards. I think Molina will get in, I'm definitely a Molina fan, but I'm thinking he's right at the threshold and needs a bit more...

It's not little league soccer where everyone plays, everyone is included, everyone gets to play a lot, everyone gets a gold star, and everyone gets a trophy. There's already a couple of dozen that I think should have never gone in, and that's realistically unfixable. Let's not compound that by adding more sow's ears to what should have been only silk purses.

Please you want to put in middling older players and ignore more modern studs. That’s one of baseballs biggest problems over romanticizing the past and over criticizing the modern era and present day. Why it’s no longer the number one sport it’s fans are annoying as hell.

[cammb]

The moody blues

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think you can make assumptions about years someone never played, although obviously before the war he was headed in that direction. If I recall Kenny Cole and I debated this one a while back. Knowing Kenny, he probably thinks he won lol.

I don't think I won. I feel like we each argued our perspectives and left it at that. It was up to others to decide whose arguments carried the most weight, although I still feel pretty strongly that he deserves consideration.

[bjerome]

My friend and I had a pretty lengthy debate regarding Harold Baines before he was elected. He was for, I was against. At that time, I listed him in what I called the HALL OF VERY GOOD. What I also did was ask myself a question regarding his candidacy. I asked myself "did he play his way into the conversation?", meaning does his career have a legitimate possibility that he could be looked at as far as the Hall of Fame Conversation goes. In looking at it that way my answer was a very overwhelming yes, he did play his way to consideration for the honor. As far as I'm concerned, once your name's in the conversation (Especially in the Vet's Committee), anything can happen. I have stuck to that logic ever since.