Lifestyles of the greatest

[rdwyer]

Curious what kinda of lifestyle Wagner and others lived back in the day. Did they live in mansions, expensive cars, etc.

[rdwyer]

What was...

[oldeboo]

Interesting to think about, but I’m sure it varied a good bit. I’m sure some will have specific examples.

From a historical perspective and a quick search, the top players of the game around 1910 were pulling in close to $10k a year. That doesn’t sound like much, but compared to the average worker making under $500 a year, it was. I’m sure there were some handshakes that included car keys and what not too. A nice house could be had for under $5k, a car for under $1k, etc. Of course there were higher end items available too. It was a different time when extreme luxury meant having a flushing toilet, electricity and maybe a phone line. Americans in 1910 were not yet completely focused on consumerism. When you’re making 20x more than the average worker, you certainly could afford more than most and higher end items.

[steve B]

And they weren't even the best paid athletes.

Six day bike riders got 100 a day for beginners up to 1000 a day for the top star just after 1898. By the 20's it was higher, especially if the crowd put up some nice sprint prizes, which could often be $200.

Alf Goullet and his partner earned 50K on the last day alone on 1921, and got a 10K appearance fee for his last race in 1925.

[oldjudge]

The highest salary Wagner ever had was $10,000. That was roughly 25x the average US salary. That probably means that he could live well, but not be in the mansion class. Imagine how one would live today if their salary was 25x the national average.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The highest salary Wagner ever had was $10,000. That was roughly 25x the average US salary. That probably means that he could live well, but not be in the mansion class. Imagine how one would live today if their salary was 25x the national average.

Such as head football & basketball coaches at major colleges and universities, for example

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The highest salary Wagner ever had was $10,000. That was roughly 25x the average US salary. That probably means that he could live well, but not be in the mansion class. Imagine how one would live today if their salary was 25x the national average.

The purchasing power of $10,000.00 in 1908 is equivalent to approximately $286,000.00 today. Accordingly, I’m sure Wagner lived very well, but nowhere near today’s superstars.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

The purchasing power of $10,000.00 in 1908 is equivalent to approximately $286,000.00 today. Accordingly, I’m sure Wagner lived very well, but nowhere near today’s superstars.

Don't forget, his playing days ended and his salary as a coach after that was considerably less. It's not like a businessman or investor who could sustain a high income throughout life.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Don't forget, his playing days ended and his salary as a coach after that was considerably less. It's not like a businessman or investor who could sustain a high income throughout life.

Ty Cobb took his baseball salary, invested in Real Estate, shares of Coca-Cola and GM. Started a hospital with a $100,000 donation which grew into a medical network and set up a scholarship fund so kids could go to college, both of which survive to this day. Not only one of baseballs greatest he was also an astute businessman, investor, and philanthropic superstar.

[packs]

I always feel like this exercise is looked at the wrong way. Wagner made $10,000 in 1908 at a time when you could live on less than a dollar a day. You might say his salary doesn't equate to 30 million dollars a year but he was living pretty comfortably.

[JustinD]

Some had more than most, but it was advertising dollars. Remember that well into the 70's most professionals had offseason jobs to supplement the income.

In Detroit we have many of the older homes of the players still standing due to the economy not making it as profitable to tear down during the heydays of 60's and 70's to destroy and rebuild. Most are in the Boston-Edison Neighborhoods.

Here is Cobb's home currently...not out of place in the neighborhood for that time.

[JustinD]

Here is Frank Navin's home for sale a few years back. He was the owner during Cobb's general tenure -

https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/3/27...navin-for-sale

[nat]

That Navin house is listed at $395k? Man, Detroit is _cheap_.

Anyway, star players always made good money. Not like today, obviously, but they were never hurting. Cap Anson made $3k in 1885. There are all sorts of problems with inflation calculators (mostly that prices don't inflate at the same rate), but that's in the $85k range today. So even the in early days star players were basically middle class.

[darwinbulldog]

I have a family member who lives very close to Mel Ott's old house. It's still in good shape and I'd guess worth just over $1 million today, so yeah, nice but not like gilded age robber baron nice.

[Hankphenom]

The big stars lived very well, probably the equivalent of bank presidents at the time, and could enjoy the off-seasons if they wanted. There was also side money from exhibitions, endorsements and promotions, etc. Little or no income taxes helped, too. Average players had jobs in the off-season and had to get another gig when their careers ended, many parlaying their renown as major leaguers into owning bars, restaurants, bowling alleys, etc., or selling cars, insurance, and the like. Lifestyles for both was roughly equivalent to current players into the 1980s, when free agency accelerated. The minimum salary in 1975 was $16,000, and the average $44,000. Old-timers must look on with amazement at utility players and set-up pitchers who these days can retire after a 9-year career with a $50 million-dollar portfolio.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

The big stars lived very well, probably the equivalent of bank presidents at the time, and could enjoy the off-seasons if they wanted. There was also side money from exhibitions, endorsements and promotions, etc. Little or no income taxes helped, too. Average players had jobs in the off-season and had to get another gig when their careers ended, many parlaying their renown as major leaguers into owning bars, restaurants, bowling alleys, etc., or selling cars, insurance, and the like. Lifestyles for both was roughly equivalent to current players into the 1980s, when free agency accelerated. The minimum salary in 1975 was $16,000, and the average $44,000. Old-timers must look on with amazement at utility players and set-up pitchers who these days can retire after a 9-year career with a $50 million-dollar portfolio.

I know only a little about Ernie Lombardi, HOF star of the world champion Reds, but his battle with depression post playing days makes it seem like his attempts to find endorsements was degrading. Living in California, living on past accomplishments with no current star power.... I am going to assume he wasn't the only player who felt like that. Eventually it led him to attempt suicide. From SABR:

"Unfortunately for Lombardi, his life after baseball was not a comfortable one. He held different jobs on the West Coast, unable to settle into a steady profession. He lived the life of a recluse, still haunted by the “Lombardi Snooze” moniker. In April of 1953, he and his wife were visiting relatives in Castro Valley, California. Ernie used the bathroom, said he was not feeling well, and went to lie down in a bedroom. Bernice, his wife, checked on him a short time after and discovered that he had cut his throat with a razor he found in the bathroom. He struggled with emergency personnel, saying that he wanted to die. Lombardi was saved from his suicide attempt and entered a private sanitarium."

Tris Speaker continued to work almost to his death. Wikipedia says he worked in various sports related jobs post career: indoor baseball league, Cleveland boxing commissioner, and finally as a goodwill ambassador for the Indians in the late 1940s.

I think we all have quiet respect for that star player of any generation who is able to escape the spotlight, find a quiet life for themselves that they desire, and live content. And then we all talk about how hard it is to obtain their auto.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by todeen

I think we all have quiet respect for that star player of any generation who is able to escape the spotlight, find a quiet life for themselves that they desire, and live content. And then we all talk about how hard it is to obtain their auto.

I'm sorry to hear about Lombardi's problems, Tim, but I bet the vast majority of ex-big leaguers were both thrilled to pick up any endorsements or other financial advantages they could derive from their ball-playing exploits and also happy to receive whatever recognition and adulation those brought them post-career. Without knowing anything about his life, I'd suspect he had deeper problems that contributed to his sad demise. And for every ex-player trying desperately to escape the inconveniences and annoyances of fame, I'd guess there were just as many or more who took to it like Babe Ruth, who stood for hours signing autographs and talking to fans until the last one went home. I think a poll of ex-players would show overwhelming gratitude for the opportunities of all kinds baseball created for them, and regard the downsides as a small price to pay.

[packs]

There are similar tough tales even today. Warren Sapp made over 80 million dollars in his career and when he filed for bankruptcy he had less than a thousand dollars in his account.

Athletes are still working TV jobs and coaching jobs to support themselves. Some people are just better with money no matter what the amount is.

[rdwyer]

Sad stories. But I would've thought most had flashy cars. etc.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Sad stories. But I would've thought most had flashy cars. etc.

They did, and loved to take pictures with them. They were also sharp dressers, and not long after coming off the farm or out of the mines, they all looked like a million dollars with their tailored suits and daily haircuts, etc. The life of a big league ballplayer exposed them quickly to the most sophisticated elements of society: train travel, big cities, the best hotels, fine restaurants, etc., and gave them at least the veneer of young men on the move.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I think a poll of ex-players would show overwhelming gratitude for the opportunities of all kinds baseball created for them, and regard the downsides as a small price to pay.

Yes, I would agree that most players love the spotlight and want to stay in it. I think of some of the Lawrence Ritter stories about players he was trying to find and interview. Some of them were living quite humbly.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by nat

That Navin house is listed at $395k? Man, Detroit is _cheap_.

What a massive house! If it was located in my city (Toronto), you would have to pay 2 million CDN for it.

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by todeen

I know only a little about Ernie Lombardi, HOF star of the world champion Reds, but his battle with depression post playing days makes it seem like his attempts to find endorsements was degrading. Living in California, living on past accomplishments with no current star power.... I am going to assume he wasn't the only player who felt like that. Eventually it led him to attempt suicide. From SABR:

"Unfortunately for Lombardi, his life after baseball was not a comfortable one. He held different jobs on the West Coast, unable to settle into a steady profession. He lived the life of a recluse, still haunted by the “Lombardi Snooze” moniker. In April of 1953, he and his wife were visiting relatives in Castro Valley, California. Ernie used the bathroom, said he was not feeling well, and went to lie down in a bedroom. Bernice, his wife, checked on him a short time after and discovered that he had cut his throat with a razor he found in the bathroom. He struggled with emergency personnel, saying that he wanted to die. Lombardi was saved from his suicide attempt and entered a private sanitarium."

Tris Speaker continued to work almost to his death. Wikipedia says he worked in various sports related jobs post career: indoor baseball league, Cleveland boxing commissioner, and finally as a goodwill ambassador for the Indians in the late 1940s.

I think we all have quiet respect for that star player of any generation who is able to escape the spotlight, find a quiet life for themselves that they desire, and live content. And then we all talk about how hard it is to obtain their auto.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

It should be added that Lombardi's backup catcher Willard Hershberger committed suicide during the 1940 season in the exact same way, slitting his throat with a razor in a hotel bathroom. Those demons stayed with Lombardi and clearly had something to do with his own suicide attempt. I'm sure someone here knows a lot more about that story than I do.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by chadeast

It should be added that Lombardi's backup catcher Willard Hershberger committed suicide during the 1940 season in the exact same way, slitting his throat with a razor in a hotel bathroom. Those demons stayed with Lombardi and clearly had something to do with his own suicide attempt. I'm sure someone here knows a lot more about that story than I do.

I brought up Lombardi as a gate to the idea that some athletes have problems transitioning away from stardom. Accepting endorsements is not the same as winning batting titles, or World Series. Lombardi's own GM Warren Giles didn't like him, and actively lobbied to keep him out of the HOF.

This is not alienated to Lombardi alone, it affects many individuals. Any retiree has a hard time transitioning to life after work - "how do I make my life meaningful?"

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by todeen

This is not alienated to Lombardi alone, it affects many individuals. Any retiree has a hard time transitioning to life after work - "how do I make my life meaningful?"

Of course. Life challenges everyone, no matter what our station, and we all deal with it the best we can. As the old saw goes, "they still put their pants on one leg at a time." But I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that baseball didn't make most of their lives better than they would have been otherwise, or that they didn't believe that it did.

[steve B]

The link to Frank Navins house was interesting. It's not all that much bigger than mine, although it has a much better floor plan that can be made to look huge in pictures. Mine is about 3500 square feet compared to 4000. A few streets away there are some houses that are closer to 5000sqf+

The main former owner was initially a partner in a wholesale grocery, and became president of Amalgamated Graphite around 1909-10. So sort of a minor captain of industry.

Renovations to the house were done around then.
A bit later -late teens- he paid taxes on about 11,000 in income.

That was also enough for him to build a house on Marthas Vineyard.

A while ago I looked up the owner of a machine tool company that was here in town, and found his house, still there. He owned a large factory making lathes etc, and his place was also very modest.