Let's talk about "over-looked" true Rookie cards....Pre-war and early Post-war

[bcbgcbrcb]

Yes, Bob C., that is correct. Those are some of the easiest cards to classify as rookie cards, no doubters.

[darwinbulldog]

For those raising the issue of minor league players in major league sets, is there a standard cutoff about what number or % of players in the set (or what number or % of cards in the set) can depict minor leaguers before it's no longer considered a major league set?

[tedzan]

Hey Guys

A little too much "verbiage" going on here Time for some more card displays. Lefty O'Doul is one of my favorites. Personally, I think he should be in the
Hall of Fame. His rookie year was 1919 with the NY Yankees. I'm not sure which card is his rookie card, he is featured in the 1918 ZEENUT series (but it is
a PCL card). Anyone, on this forum have an idea which card of Lefty (wearing a Major League uniform) is his rookie card ?


.








TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Anyone, on this forum have an idea which card of Lefty (wearing a Major League uniform) is his rookie card ?


.

Take your pick...

[bcbgcbrcb]

Peter:

You are right on the money for all three of those cards.

Again, take a look at the five simple parameters that I use, if a card fits all of those guidelines, then it qualifies as a potential rookie card, if no other qualified rookie cards of that player pre-date it.

Also important to note that all qualified rookie cards from the same year are true rookie cards, whether one was issued earlier or later in the year than another does not make it the only true rookie card. It could be considered the first rookie card produced and may sometimes be accompanied by a premium because of that but not necessarily so.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Glenn:

You are correct, sets that consist of predominantly Major League cards but also include some Minor League/Amateur players would qualify for rookie card status. Examples of these would include N172's, '85 Topps McGwire, etc. From around 2000 on, the card companies started defining what constitutes a player's rookie card so once you get modern/ultra-modern cards into the conversation, things change dramatically. That's why my parameters are designed strictly for vintage cards.

[darwinbulldog]

Is N172 predominantly major leaguers? I'm sure that's a stupid question, but I really don't know.

[packs]

What about a set like Cracker Jacks or some of the Coupon sets that feature a heavy Federal League presence? Are those considered major league cards?

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by packs

What about a set like Cracker Jacks or some of the Coupon sets that feature a heavy Federal League presence? Are those considered major league cards?

Yes, Federal League was considered a major league in its day and records are incorporated into players stats.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Is N172 predominantly major leaguers? I'm sure that's a stupid question, but I really don't know.

Yes.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Is N172 predominantly major leaguers? I'm sure that's a stupid question, but I really don't know.

There are certainly several "rookie" cards of HOF players that were not yet in the majors.

For instance, Kid Nichols' 1889 Old Judge pictures him with Omaha of the Western Association (minor leagues). Similarly, Clark Griffith's 1889 Old Judge pictures him with Milwaukee of the Western Association.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Yes, Bob C., that is correct. Those are some of the easiest cards to classify as rookie cards, no doubters.

Thanks. And agree with you.

[G1911]

The Federal League is counted as a major league by MLB, also by Baseball-Reference and basically every other compiler of statistics readily available. I'm not sure that it SHOULD be but it is universally recognized as a major league. Further, I'm not aware of any significant players whose rookie card is a federal league card, or of federal league cards from 1913, so I'm not sure this is relevant anyways.

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

The Federal League is counted as a major league by MLB, also by Baseball-Reference and basically every other compiler of statistics readily available. I'm not sure that it SHOULD be but it is universally recognized as a major league. Further, I'm not aware of any significant players whose rookie card is a federal league card, or of federal league cards from 1913, so I'm not sure this is relevant anyways.

It would be everyone's Federal League rookie card.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

It would be everyone's Federal League rookie card.

So Frank Robinson has a National league rookie card and an American League rookie card? I suppose this can be technically so (just as every player has a "rookie card with X team" or any other qualifier one wants to add on), but I don't think this is a definition used by anyone or relevant to the discussion here.

[packs]

Well, no. The American League and National League are part of the same league. The Federal League, though I guess considered a major league, was still an entirely different league.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

Well, no. The American League and National League are part of the same league. The Federal League, though I guess considered a major league, was still an entirely different league.

This is not correct, they are not part of the same league. The American and National Leagues remain separate leagues to this day. They began to cooperate a bit in 1903, they remained separate. The National Commission had little power, the commissioner's office was only created in 1920. The American and National leagues even then remained separate legal entities until 2000, and remain as 2 different playing leagues to this day.

The American and National Leagues are not the only recognized Major Leagues. That a player's rookie is dependent on each major league is not a standard I have ever heard before. If it is to be a standard, it should be made the same across the board; if 3 Finger Brown now has a Federal League rookie card in Crack Jack, then Frank Robinson has 2 rookies as well.

This is an odd line to draw.