Future of cards shows

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by packs

Maybe one total collector. I was growing up in the 90s. Do you know how many of my friends collected Pokemon cards? Nearly all of them. Do you know how many collected a single card after the initial fad? None of them.

Just curious, why were they buying them in the first place? Because their friends were? Looking to make a quick buck? So there was no inherent appeal to these things at all? Sorry, but it sounds like a generation of sheep to me, that's really depressing.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Just curious, why were they buying them in the first place? Because their friends were? Looking to make a quick buck? So there was no inherent appeal to these things at all? Sorry, but it sounds like a generation of sheep to me, that's really depressing.

The appeal was that they were new and there was a Gameboy game to go along with them. Not to mention the gimmicky motto "Collect them all!".

Today, people will pay $100K plus for a PSA 10 Charizard. That is the total appeal of Pokemon cards now. What you might be able to sell a card you might get for. It isn't limited to Pokemon either. That is the same appeal that all major sports releases play to.

How else do explain why a hobby box of UFC cards costs over a thousand dollars? Nobody likes UFC that much.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Just curious, why were they buying them in the first place? Because their friends were? Looking to make a quick buck? So there was no inherent appeal to these things at all? Sorry, but it sounds like a generation of sheep to me, that's really depressing.

My kids played with Pokemon and later Magic cards for hours and hours and hours. Of course once you actually played with these cards, good bye any chance at submitting them for any kind of high grade.

[packs]

I don't even see how kids can become new collectors now. What 10 year old is walking around with $300 to spend on a Bowman hobby box? And why would they want to? So they can maybe get a card of a guy who plays in the minor leagues?

The only money in the hobby is from bored adults who don't care about collecting cards and have no staying power.

[Snapolit1]

Yeah, maybe I'm cynical, but when I see these heartwarming stories like "Look at Little Johnny at his neighborhood card show negotiating for a card . . . ." I'm dubious of the whole thing. I have a brother and friends who teach middle school and high school. These kids aren't into baseball cards believe me. It's all computers and all on the phone stuff. Average 12 year old is about as excited about baseball cards as he is for the next Bruce Springsteen album.

Originally Posted by packs

I don't even see how kids can become new collectors now. What 10 year old is walking around with $300 to spend on a Bowman hobby box? And why would they want to? So they can maybe get a card of a guy who plays in the minor leagues?

The only money in the hobby is from bored adults who don't care about collecting cards and have no staying power.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, maybe I'm cynical, but when I see these heartwarming stories like "Look at Little Johnny at his neighborhood card show negotiating for a card . . . ." I'm dubious of the whole thing. I have a brother and friends who teach middle school and high school. These kids aren't into baseball cards believe me. It's all computers and all on the phone stuff. Average 12 year old is about as excited about baseball cards as he is for the next Bruce Springsteen album.

That is totally untrue. My 3 11 year old grandson's are avid collectors, as well as my 12 year old and 24 year old grandson's. Every kid on their Little League team collect's baseball cards. They go to card shows and card shops and trade with their friends. The only downside is that they can't go to a store to buy packs because the "investors" have cleaned out all of the stores. Even the online products at Wal-Mart have tripled in price during the past few months.

As far as Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic The Gathering, etc., they have been around for over 20 years. There are many tournaments and many young people getting together to play each other. Take a look at the tens of 1000's of these cards on the TCG player website and the 100's of people selling cards for a couple of bucks or less.

And, I think that overall, disregarding the very limited number of people who are buying the expensive cards, the heart of the collecting market and the lions share of collecting money is coming from the hard core collector's.

[John1941]

I think that it's somewhere in the middle. I'm 14, and I (obviously) am an avid card collector. On the other hand, I know only one other person who seriously collects cards, and only a handful who collect cards at all. No one on my little league team collects baseball cards.

Originally Posted by buymycards

That is totally untrue. My 3 11 year old grandson's are avid collectors, as well as my 12 year old and 24 year old grandson's. Every kid on their Little League team collect's baseball cards. They go to card shows and card shops and trade with their friends. The only downside is that they can't go to a store to buy packs because the "investors" have cleaned out all of the stores. Even the online products at Wal-Mart have tripled in price during the past few months.

As far as Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic The Gathering, etc., they have been around for over 20 years. There are many tournaments and many young people getting together to play each other. Take a look at the tens of 1000's of these cards on the TCG player website and the 100's of people selling cards for a couple of bucks or less.

And, I think that overall, disregarding the very limited number of people who are buying the expensive cards, the heart of the collecting market and the lions share of collecting money is coming from the hard core collector's.

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't even see how kids can become new collectors now. What 10 year old is walking around with $300 to spend on a Bowman hobby box? And why would they want to? So they can maybe get a card of a guy who plays in the minor leagues?

The only money in the hobby is from bored adults who don't care about collecting cards and have no staying power.

Are you kidding me?! When you say: " Most of the money in the hobby is not coming from collectors". Maybe you just described the Pokemon craze, the new Basketball & Football rookie investment, and overspending on modern cards. But, have you considered Vintage and the people who collect Pre War? It's the exact opposite of what you just described. Maybe that's what you meant, knowing that people who have collected for years have the staying power & resources. It didn't sound right.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

Are you kidding me?! When you say: " Most of the money in the hobby is not coming from collectors". Maybe you just described the Pokemon craze, the new Basketball & Football rookie investment, and overspending on modern cards. But, have you considered Vintage and the people who collect Pre War? It's the exact opposite of what you just described. Maybe that's what you meant, knowing that people who have collected for years have the staying power & resources. It didn't sound right.

I know that because I collect pre-war and there's no other reason to collect it unless you love it. You're not going to get a Babe Ruth Goudey for $100. You will spend because you have to have whatever you're buying.

But I don't believe that is where the majority of the money being injected into the hobby is coming from. Speculators are where the money is coming from. Modern is generating the money. Online exclusives are generating the money. People come to the show in person to buy what they couldn't online. But it's in the interest of speculating, not collecting cards. Do you think a majority of people who buy a box of 2021 Bowman are doing so to complete the set?

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

My kids played with Pokemon and later Magic cards for hours and hours and hours. Of course once you actually played with these cards, good bye any chance at submitting them for any kind of high grade.

Playing with and collecting these things seem like two totally different things to me, although we did play with our baseball cards, too. So nobody actually collected Pokemon, they bought them to play the game? Are they buying them now to play with or collect?

[packs]

It's no different than baseball cards. People bought them because they liked Pokemon. When they got older, they found out their cards were worth money to a small fraction of people who still collected them.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Playing with and collecting these things seem like two totally different things to me, although we did play with our baseball cards, too. So nobody actually collected Pokemon, they bought them to play the game? Are they buying them now to play with or collect?

I suspect that a fair number of 30 year olds who grew up playing with them as teens and who have made boku bux in their Silicon Valley start up or on Bitcoin now find them to be a source of great nostalgia and something they will pay stupid money to collect.

Not a whole lot different than someone who grew up in the 60s and played with baseball cards and now has major disposable income will pay $500,000 to collect a Mickey Mantle card.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I suspect that a fair number of 30 year olds who grew up playing with them as teens and who have made boku bux in their Silicon Valley start up or on Bitcoin now find them to be a source of great nostalgia and something they will pay stupid money to collect.

Not a whole lot different than someone who grew up in the 60s and played with baseball cards and now has major disposable income will pay $500,000 to collect a Mickey Mantle card.

Except that the guys here are saying nobody was actually collecting Pokemon at Philly, the crowd was there to speculate in those and everything else. That strikes me as different from the proven staying power and cross-generational appeal so far of baseball cards, although who knows if that will maintain or for how long?

[Snapolit1]

I don't know. What's the percentage of people who are "collecting" Willie Mays rookie cards versus those "speculating" in them? I have no idea. Seems the vast majority of people now are trying to collect something that will appreciate in value. I have no issue with that.

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Except that the guys here are saying nobody was actually collecting Pokemon at Philly, the crowd was there to speculate in those and everything else. That strikes me as different from the proven staying power and cross-generational appeal so far of baseball cards, although who knows if that will maintain or for how long?

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I don't know. What's the percentage of people who are "collecting" Willie Mays rookie cards versus those "speculating" in them? I have no idea. Seems the vast majority of people now are trying to collect something that will appreciate in value. I have no issue with that.

Me, either, if that's the case, and likewise I have no clue what the % is between collectors and speculators, plus the crossover factor--how many collectors may be finding their wallets loosened to add to their collection by the idea that in general it has proven to be a good investment as well?