Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The L & M label on these cartons proves nothing in determining when the 1910 COUPON cards were printed. All this indicates is that some 1910 COUPON cards were affixed
to these cartons post ATC Divesture.
The most significant key to determining when the 1910 cards were printed (besides the 48 subjects from the 350-only Series) is in the labelling on the backs of these cards,
namely "COUPON"

The QUOTES surrounding the Brand name signify that ATC has not yet received the Registered TRADEMARK of this new brand (circa 1909/1910) at time of their printing.

Other such examples of QUOTED new Brands are these...........





. .



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

As you like to say we have discussed this already Ted.

First of we know the Coupon Cigarettes existed as early as 1908

Originally Posted by tedzan

That's the 1908 Times Picayune article which I referred to regarding the "COUPON" Cigarettes brand. I knew you would find it.

Come on Pat, this is silly...."but it doesn't say anything about baseball pictures.".

T206's were not issued until approx. a year later (circa Spring/Summer 1909).

Anyway, thanks for finding this Newspaper article.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

and the quotes seemed to be used on tobacco products frequently back then

Here's a Carolina Brights coupon I have that they used the quotes on

img408.jpg

so your case closed evidence that they were printed in 1910 is

A similar back design
48 subjects from the 350 only series
Coupon in quotes
Paper missing on some backs where they were glued to cartons

These things according to you are case closed evidence they were printed in 1910


but the these facts

they're printed on a different stock
the t213 type 1 subjects don't match up with any other t206 back (except Piedmont)
the ledger pages from an atc journal covering 35 tobacco brands from 1909-1912 doesn't have Coupon cigarettes in it.
you claim that they were glued to cartons and that's what the paper loss on on the back of some of them is from but the carton with paper loss on it that Jeremy has you yourself said is no earlier than 1913.

so all of these facts are just meh... a coincidence?

it really seems to me that you're grasping at straws to prove they were printed in 1910.

[DixieBaseball]

The carton I showed is 1 of 2 examples I have ever seen. We don't know what the cartons looked like from 1909-12. Perhaps they were different. I showed the carton to merely indicate that it has paper loss in upper right and the size of the paper loss is the same as the typical size of the paper loss on a Type 1 Coupon. Many Type 1 Coupons have this same paper loss. There is no doubt the Coupons were affixed to something. Too many examples to be a coincidence. Also, keep in mind Coupon changed their coloring, style on packs multiple times. (I have 3 different colors/styles from 3 different decades in my collection) So it's not out of the question, to see a variance of carton or pack. There may be different examples of cartons that didn't survive that look different from 1909-12. We know the packs look different from 1910 era to 1919-20 to 1930's...

[DixieBaseball]

New Orleans Retailer with rare image of Coupon Boxes / Cartons in the background for sale behind their Window shelves. I wonder how many Coupon Cartons came to a Coupon Box? 4,5,8, or 10 perhaps... Love the mystery behind this super rare tobacco brand.

[Pat R]

Jeremy, It doesn't matter to me if people want to group them with t206's
or if they were attached to the outside of cartons what I am interested in
is the date they were printed.

Have you or Ted looked at the ATC journal?

It covers all the cigarette brand in the t206 set and a total of 35 different brands.

Here are some of the t206 pages from that journal

ATC Carolina Brights Ledger page 2.jpg

ATC Cycle Ledger page.jpg

The narrower American Beauty's you brought up were in it

ATC American Beauty Ledger page.jpg


But the Coupon Cigarettes weren't.

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Jeremy, It doesn't matter to me if people want to group them with t206's
or if they were attached to the outside of cartons what I am interested in
is the date they were printed.

Have you or Ted looked at the ATC journal?

It covers all the cigarette brand in the t206 set and a total of 35 different brands.

Here are some of the t206 pages from that journal

Attachment 459686

Attachment 459687

The narrower American Beauty's you brought up were in it

Attachment 459688


But the Coupon Cigarettes weren't.

Hey Pat - at some point in near future, I will certainly be looking into your ATC Journal info (thank you for providing-looks interesting), and this thread to review all the comments. Plausible either way I suppose, but certainly will check it out. I am to busy playing offense at the moment, to play defense --- Seriously though, I look forward to reviewing, discussing w/ you and Ted in near future. Just so frikkin busy, and I better get back to pressure washing the back deck as that is what I was suppose to be doing this morning... Meanwhile... let us be Free from Adulteration!

[Casey2296]

Neat stuff Jerome, thanks for posting.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

As you like to say we have discussed this already Ted.

First of we know the Coupon Cigarettes existed as early as 1908



and the quotes seemed to be used on tobacco products frequently back then

Here's a Carolina Brights coupon I have that they used the quotes on

Attachment 459661 Yes, because in 1908 CAROLINA BRIGHTS was a new ATC brand whose TRADEMARK had NOT yet been Registered !

so your case closed evidence that they were printed in 1910 is

A similar back design
48 subjects from the 350 only series
Coupon in quotes
Paper missing on some backs where they were glued to cartons

These things according to you are case closed evidence they were printed in 1910


but the these facts

they're printed on a different stock
Because these cards were not intended to be inserted in Packs as "stiffiners". There are NO packs labelled "COUPON" cigarettes.


the t213 type 1 subjects don't match up with any other t206 back (except Piedmont) I do not understand what you are stating here, this does NOT make any sense !

the ledger pages from an atc journal covering 35 tobacco brands from 1909-1912 doesn't have Coupon cigarettes in it.
Keep researching, you'll find one that does include the COUPON brand !

you claim that they were glued to cartons and that's what the paper loss on on the back of some of them is from but the carton with paper loss on it that Jeremy has you yourself said is no earlier than 1913. Totally irrelevant in determining printing date !

so all of these facts are just meh... a coincidence?

it really seems to me that you're grasping at straws to prove they were printed in 1910.

I'm not grasping at any straws.

You are so OBSESSED with proving me wrong regarding the 1910 date.....that you are continually making a "fool" of your self.

Perhaps Mark Twain said it best.... "Do not argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

This discussion is ENDED ! ! (as far as I'm concerned).

Thanks for "hi-jacking" what started out as an interesting thread.


Hey folks, let's continue posting and talking about our favorite Tobacco cards.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I'm not grasping at any straws.

You are so OBSESSED with proving me wrong regarding the 1910 date.....that you are continually making a "fool" of your self.

Perhaps Mark Twain said it best.... "Do not argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

This discussion is ENDED ! ! (as far as I'm concerned).

Thanks for "hi-jacking" what started out as an interesting thread.


Hey folks, let's continue posting and talking about our favorite Tobacco cards.


TED Z
.

Well Ted if posting facts is "making a fool of myself" so be it at least I can say I never faked a scan to prove myself right.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=136566

[atx840]

Some of my favorites.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by atx840

Some of my favorites.

Hey Chris.....ole buddy.....did you have any luck getting the BROAD LEAF ?






I still need his CAROLINA BRIGHTS, CYCLE 46, and T213-3 (overprint) cards to complete my blue Chase run. And, if a DRUM card
of this Chase should ever surface, just imagine what the $$$$$ will be for it ?


Also, I need his T214 (VICTORY) card. In the meantime, this VICTORY reprint will fill this vacancy





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Full pack of 10. Any one here interested in smoking a 110 year
old American Beauty cigarette...................




The AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 is my favorite T206 back.

This Zach Wheat card was my first AMERICAN BEAUTY 460. It motivated me to start the AB 460 run. American Lithographic printed 74 subjects with the AB 460 back.

After many years, I now have 73 cards.... I still need Camnitz (hands above head) to complete this run. I will generously reward you, if you can help me find Camnitz.


And, this beauty is my favorite AB 460 card.

.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[qed2190]

Mayo, & OJ