The Rosen '52 find

Directly · #1 05-22-2021, 09:20 PM

If you haven't seen this interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjckQNXP4Gs

jimjim · #2 05-23-2021, 03:17 PM

I�ve heard the story countless times, but I just watch the YouTube video. Can somebody clarify when Al Rosen said he paid the guy 10% instead of 20%... was that 10% of book value? If so, that�s insane.

ocjack · #3 05-23-2021, 03:28 PM

I think I recall Rosen saying in an interview that he sells cards because he can make money doing it. That if he could sell apples and make a huge profit, he would sell apples. So you're right, he had no "feelings" for the hobby other than as a way to make money.

Zach Wheat · #4 10-01-2024, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocjack

I think I recall Rosen saying in an interview that he sells cards because he can make money doing it. That if he could sell apples and make a huge profit, he would sell apples. So you're right, he had no "feelings" for the hobby other than as a way to make money.

Agree that was the motivation

Leon · #5 10-07-2024, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Agree that was the motivation

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

As far as pedigrees on slabs, only when it makes sense. I was asked if I wanted my collection slabs pedigreed, when I sold it. I said hell no....

.

brianp-beme · #6 10-07-2024, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

And I shall talk about Diamond Stars.

To me it always seemed the 1934 Diamond Stars green backs, which are card #'s 1 through 24 that have both a 1934 copyright date AND 1933 stats (with the exception of the #7 card of Lew Fonseca, which can be identified as a 1934 release instead of 1935 based upon his age listed in the biographical text - '34 years old' vs. '35 years old').

These 24 1934 cards have always seemed to me to be a little tougher to come by in comparison to the 1935 green back versions of cards 1 to 24.

Only nine cards in the set were issued in all three years (card numbers 2, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 12, 16 and 22). Shown below are the three back versions for card # 4 Buddy Myer:

distarsmyertrio 001 (1024x416).jpg
distarstriobacks 001 (1024x414).jpg

Cards shown on left are 1934 issued, in center 1935 issued, and 1936 on right.

Brian (as it relates to apples to oranges comparisons, tangents are my favorite fruit when it comes to collecting info to share)

Casey2296 · #7 10-10-2024, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

As far as pedigrees on slabs, only when it makes sense. I was asked if I wanted my collection slabs pedigreed, when I sold it. I said hell no....

.

I respect your humble decision Leon, but you did amass one of the greatest type collections ever, certainly worthy of a "Leon Luckey" label.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 10-11-2024, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

There are a lot of people in the hobby only collecting greenbacks. And I am not talking Diamond Stars!

As far as pedigrees on slabs, only when it makes sense. I was asked if I wanted my collection slabs pedigreed, when I sold it. I said hell no....

.

It probably would have devalued the cards.

Ben Yourg · #9 10-12-2024, 08:09 PM

---------Delete----

tjisonline · #10 10-13-2024, 09:57 AM

I don�t buy the Berger�s 52 Topps river dumping story. More like CCC (had Topps connections) bought the leftover 52 inventory (including uncut sheets), had them cut, & sold what they were able to over the next 10-15 years. Then their 1975 fire warehouse fire wiped out some real treasures including their hoard of 71 Greatest Moments test cards.

According to lore, rumors, etc� going back to the 1980s (when I collected as a kid), word had it Rosen & others came across uncut & large bordered 52 Topps 5th & 6th series sheets in addition to the 1986 52 find. Had them cut from sheets / trimmed & sold them. In my opinion, this is likely were many of today�s high grade 52 Topps 5th & 6th series originated from.

Please note everything typed in this post is my opinion & pure speculation .

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/202...btful.html?m=1

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2020...money.html?m=0

Rich Klein · #11 10-13-2024, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjisonline

I don�t buy the Berger�s 52 Topps river dumping story. More like CCC (had Topps connections) bought the leftover 52 inventory (including uncut sheets), had them cut, & sold what they were able to over the next 10-15 years. Then their 1975 fire warehouse fire wiped out some real treasures including their hoard of 71 Greatest Moments test cards.

According to lore, rumors, etc� going back to the 1980s (when I collected as a kid), word had it Rosen & others came across uncut & large bordered 52 Topps 5th & 6th series sheets. Had them cut from sheets / trimmed & sold them. In my opinion, this is likely were many of today�s high grade 52 Topps 5th & 6th series originated from.

Please note everything typed in this post is my opinion & pure speculation .

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/202...btful.html?m=1

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2020...money.html?m=0

IIRC, There are period photos which show the packs the cards came from. Not sheets but "cello" type packs.

Rich

Snowman · #12 10-14-2024, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjisonline

I don�t buy the Berger�s 52 Topps river dumping story. More like CCC (had Topps connections) bought the leftover 52 inventory (including uncut sheets), had them cut, & sold what they were able to over the next 10-15 years. Then their 1975 fire warehouse fire wiped out some real treasures including their hoard of 71 Greatest Moments test cards.

According to lore, rumors, etc� going back to the 1980s (when I collected as a kid), word had it Rosen & others came across uncut & large bordered 52 Topps 5th & 6th series sheets. Had them cut from sheets / trimmed & sold them. In my opinion, this is likely were many of today�s high grade 52 Topps 5th & 6th series originated from.

Please note everything typed in this post is my opinion & pure speculation .

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/202...btful.html?m=1

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2020...money.html?m=0

I'm with you there. I'm not buying the river dump story either

SteveWhite · #13 05-23-2021, 03:30 PM

Beckett #8 from 1986 page 267, it lists the 1952 Mickey Mantle high book at $2,900, middle $900, and low book at $250.

flpm08 · #14 05-23-2021, 07:28 PM

I also remember the Rosen '52 find. Paul Lewicki , a card dealer and associate of Rosen, called me and offered the high number run for $12,000. I asked him what the Mantle was like. He said off-center and so I passed. I also think that find may have included 251 through 310, the semi-high series. The find that I remember more vividly was the Kansas City find of September 1985. This find i think included the last series 181-252 of 1950 Bowmans, 1951 Bowmans, 1952 Bowmans, 1953 Bowmans, 1952 Topps and maybe 1953 Topps. I happened to be visiting New Jersey at the time ( I live in California) and called John Broggi who I met at the 1985 National in Anaheim. He said " you would not believe what I got". I drove right down to his shop in Highland Park and I bought some beautiful 1952 Topps and 1953 Bowmans and eventually bought many 1951 Bowmans. I do not remember whether the find included high number 1952 Topps. Those were the days. Frank Martorana

Johnny T · #15 05-23-2021, 09:05 PM

When I was a kid, I bought all of my cards from John Broggi. From his store in Highland Park as well as his booth on the Rt 1 Flea Market in New Brunswick NJ. Memories.

Johnny T · #16 05-23-2021, 09:11 PM

My first "real" card I bought from John was a 1964 Topps Rose at his booth in the flea market. I paid $19...early 80's...when I showed my mother what I bought and how much I paid she flipped out! I said "I'm simply traded paper (money) for cardboard"...always the salesman. Anyway, my Mom walked me over to John's booth and kind of layed into him, thinking he took advantage of a kid. He convinced her what I bought was a good purchase and that the value would "double" in 6 months. It did! Sold that card and the rest of my collection when I went to college and used the proceeds to buy my first car. Now I'm in the process of buying all of those cards back (at the price of a house) as a mid 50's adult. Funny how things come full circle. Wonder how Broggi is doing these days.

Rich Klein · #17 05-24-2021, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny T

My first "real" card I bought from John was a 1964 Topps Rose at his booth in the flea market. I paid $19...early 80's...when I showed my mother what I bought and how much I paid she flipped out! I said "I'm simply traded paper (money) for cardboard"...always the salesman. Anyway, my Mom walked me over to John's booth and kind of layed into him, thinking he took advantage of a kid. He convinced her what I bought was a good purchase and that the value would "double" in 6 months. It did! Sold that card and the rest of my collection when I went to college and used the proceeds to buy my first car. Now I'm in the process of buying all of those cards back (at the price of a house) as a mid 50's adult. Funny how things come full circle. Wonder how Broggi is doing these days.

John is doing just fine as co-promoter of the NSCC (National).

Rich

cardsagain74 · #18 05-26-2021, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny T

My first "real" card I bought from John was a 1964 Topps Rose at his booth in the flea market. I paid $19...early 80's...when I showed my mother what I bought and how much I paid she flipped out! I said "I'm simply traded paper (money) for cardboard"...always the salesman. Anyway, my Mom walked me over to John's booth and kind of layed into him, thinking he took advantage of a kid. He convinced her what I bought was a good purchase and that the value would "double" in 6 months. It did!

He handled that better than I would've at the time. Once when I was set up at a show during the junk wax era, a kid (maybe 12) walked up with his mother and asked me a price on something in a 25% off Beckett box, which I quoted him without having to look it up.

Mom drags him away saying something like "don't believe that cause people will tell you anything" (practically to my face). I respond with a dagger glare and hold out the current Beckett, telling her she's more than welcome to check what I said. That was ignored and they walked on.

Obviously you need to teach kids to avoid getting screwed over, but that message of simply "the salesman is a POS and must be lying" is horrible, lazy parenting on many levels. Show your kids how to figure out what's good and what isn't, instead of always assuming the worst.

MK · #19 05-27-2021, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flpm08

I also remember the Rosen '52 find. Paul Lewicki , a card dealer and associate of Rosen, called me and offered the high number run for $12,000. I asked him what the Mantle was like. He said off-center and so I passed. I also think that find may have included 251 through 310, the semi-high series. The find that I remember more vividly was the Kansas City find of September 1985. This find i think included the last series 181-252 of 1950 Bowmans, 1951 Bowmans, 1952 Bowmans, 1953 Bowmans, 1952 Topps and maybe 1953 Topps. I happened to be visiting New Jersey at the time ( I live in California) and called John Broggi who I met at the 1985 National in Anaheim. He said " you would not believe what I got". I drove right down to his shop in Highland Park and I bought some beautiful 1952 Topps and 1953 Bowmans and eventually bought many 1951 Bowmans. I do not remember whether the find included high number 1952 Topps. Those were the days. Frank Martorana

So are there any written accounts of the Kansas City find like there are the Rosen find? I�ve heard of it, but really don�t know the particulars.

flpm08 · #20 05-28-2021, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MK

So are there any written accounts of the Kansas City find like there are the Rosen find? I�ve heard of it, but really don�t know the particulars.

It happened in September of 1985. John Broggi and few other East Coast dealers split the find. As I said in my previous post I was visiting New Jersey and called Broggi and he said just that he just returned from Kansas City with some beautiful early 1950s Topps and Bowmans. Evidently some collector had preserved them well. When I visited Broggi about an hour after the call, he was just unpacking them. They were in a large metal briefcase tightly packed. I purchased some beautiful low numbered 52 Topps, i.e., Spahn, Snider, Hodges, Roberts and Feller ( second series) and also some beautiful 1953 Bowmans. I do not think that he had any high number 1952 Topps or high number 1953 Bowmans, but I think that was because of the way the dealers split the find. I know that there were 1951 Bowmans in the find because I purchased some directly from Broggi in two groups of 30 common cards for $89 each. In January 1986 , I purchased over 200 1951 Bowmans at a card show in Sacramento. The dealer said that they came from the find. They
were all beautiful cards. If you further interest contact Broggi he is a co-director of the National. I am sure that he will remember the find.

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